MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

This is actually quite interesting, and it goes with his rather strange (at least to me) opening. I think I'll join you

##VOTE bozo

@Damo - maybe bozo doesn’t have to gamble on the Mafia GF not being dealt. If he has a mafia role and know someone else has picked Mafia GF.

I’m heavily town reading Damo for not realising mafia bozo would know who his scum mates are.

This is a really good point.

Also, @damo what about bozo’s scum game makes you think he would make a short term play like this to get to KiLo?

Ooh, don't like that Bunny agreed with this logic. Bunny why is it a good point?

[brainbomb]

##vote ezio

[BunnyGo]

@Damo - maybe bozo doesn’t have to gamble on the Mafia GF not being dealt. If he has a mafia role and know someone else has picked Mafia GF.

I’m heavily town reading Damo for not realising mafia bozo would know who his scum mates are.

This is a really good point.

Also, @damo what about bozo’s scum game makes you think he would make a short term play like this to get to KiLo?

Ooh, don't like that Bunny agreed with this logic. Bunny why is it a good point?

Because I didn't think through that they would only know names of partners and not roles. Having just caught up and read your response, I think it's not as convincing. But there's many layers of WIFOM here.

[brainbomb]

Ezio confirmed on Friday Jan 29. and this is not how he plays as town

[Hamilton Brian]

But if he does drop out, he'll be modkilled, and if we dk him, it doesn't help us find his scum partners.

Right, and that would mess with the reliance VCA, right? I'd be willing to concede on that.

[Maniac]

This is actually quite interesting, and it goes with his rather strange (at least to me) opening. I think I'll join you

##VOTE bozo

@Damo - maybe bozo doesn’t have to gamble on the Mafia GF not being dealt. If he has a mafia role and know someone else has picked Mafia GF.

I’m heavily town reading Damo for not realising mafia bozo would know who his scum mates are.

Why do you assumne that damo didn't realize scum!bozo would know who his teammates are?

Also, when Mafia role PMs are sent out, I think they usually just include the player names and not their roles? I've deleted mine from M1011, but I remember talking in the QT about who got what role, and Jamie GM'd that one too. Plus in the role PMs listed in the setup it just includes names of teammates, not roles. So scum wouldn't know who has what roles until they get to their QT.

Fair point, but if bozo chose say a mafia goon, his confirmation PM may only give him his scum buddy names but isn’t the QT link given at the same time which list the team mates AND their roles. If so bozo could see that someone else is Mafia GF and he is safe in claiming to discard that role. However it’s risky as what if we daykill Mafia GF now. Bozo is exposed as a liar without a good reason, as far as I can tell. Therefore I think bozo prob did discard Mafia GF and if so that’s very good news.

On balance I’m town reading both bozo, Damo and Kgray of the back of this.

[Maniac]

This is actually quite interesting, and it goes with his rather strange (at least to me) opening. I think I'll join you

##VOTE bozo

@Damo - maybe bozo doesn’t have to gamble on the Mafia GF not being dealt. If he has a mafia role and know someone else has picked Mafia GF.

I’m heavily town reading Damo for not realising mafia bozo would know who his scum mates are.

Why do you assumne that damo didn't realize scum!bozo would know who his teammates are?

Also, when Mafia role PMs are sent out, I think they usually just include the player names and not their roles? I've deleted mine from M1011, but I remember talking in the QT about who got what role, and Jamie GM'd that one too. Plus in the role PMs listed in the setup it just includes names of teammates, not roles. So scum wouldn't know who has what roles until they get to their QT.

Fair point, but if bozo chose say a mafia goon, his confirmation PM may only give him his scum buddy names but isn’t the QT link given at the same time which list the team mates AND their roles. If so bozo could see that someone else is Mafia GF and he is safe in claiming to discard that role. However it’s risky as what if we daykill Mafia GF now. Bozo is exposed as a liar without a good reason, as far as I can tell. Therefore I think bozo prob did discard Mafia GF and if so that’s very good news.

On balance I’m town reading both bozo, Damo and Kgray of the back of this.

[Bonatogether]

But if he does drop out, he'll be modkilled, and if we dk him, it doesn't help us find his scum partners.

Right, and that would mess with the reliance VCA, right? I'd be willing to concede on that.

It's a 0 info flip.

[Maniac]

Sorry for double posting

[kgray]

The most significant thing to have happened so far (and by a wide marģin) is Bozo claiming to have discarded Mafia GF.

If he is telling the truth he probably either has a valuable town role, a super valuable alien role or he fancied SK. Almost certainly not a weaker Mafia role.

He could be lying and gambling that GF wasn't dealt but with a probability of only 26/68 this is an unlikely Bozo type gambit.

I think the most likely reason for Bozo to claim to have discarded Mafia GF is that he actually RETAINED Mafia GF.

##vote Bozo

Just placeholding this reply until I see if Bozo replied to this or not. It's a hell of a hypothesis.

Seeing Macca's follow up to this...the question I was wondering is if this puts Damo and Macca as scum teammates? Probably not; scum wouldn't be that bold to piggyback on one wagon when there's other possibilities. Should it carry through then they'd be suspect together.

What does your last sentence mean? Are you saying it's unlikely that they're scum voting together now, but if they keep voting together then they're more likely scum?

[BunnyGo]

Ezio is here!

[kgray]

This is a really good point.

Also, @damo what about bozo’s scum game makes you think he would make a short term play like this to get to KiLo?

Ooh, don't like that Bunny agreed with this logic. Bunny why is it a good point?

Because I didn't think through that they would only know names of partners and not roles. Having just caught up and read your response, I think it's not as convincing. But there's many layers of WIFOM here.

Okay, well scumpoints to Bunny for saying something is a "really good point" without actually thinking about the point.

[BunnyGo]

Ooh, don't like that Bunny agreed with this logic. Bunny why is it a good point?

Because I didn't think through that they would only know names of partners and not roles. Having just caught up and read your response, I think it's not as convincing. But there's many layers of WIFOM here.

Okay, well scumpoints to Bunny for saying something is a "really good point" without actually thinking about the point.

Huh, I'm surprised you didn't go with: "I don't want to give Bunny townpoints for messing this up, but scum!Bunny would have been sure not to screw up and draw attention."

I don't care, the whole thing from the first post until this one is WIFOM. But that feels more like kgray.

[kgray]

@Damo - maybe bozo doesn’t have to gamble on the Mafia GF not being dealt. If he has a mafia role and know someone else has picked Mafia GF.

I’m heavily town reading Damo for not realising mafia bozo would know who his scum mates are.

Why do you assumne that damo didn't realize scum!bozo would know who his teammates are?

Also, when Mafia role PMs are sent out, I think they usually just include the player names and not their roles? I've deleted mine from M1011, but I remember talking in the QT about who got what role, and Jamie GM'd that one too. Plus in the role PMs listed in the setup it just includes names of teammates, not roles. So scum wouldn't know who has what roles until they get to their QT.

Fair point, but if bozo chose say a mafia goon, his confirmation PM may only give him his scum buddy names but isn’t the QT link given at the same time which list the team mates AND their roles. If so bozo could see that someone else is Mafia GF and he is safe in claiming to discard that role. However it’s risky as what if we daykill Mafia GF now. Bozo is exposed as a liar without a good reason, as far as I can tell. Therefore I think bozo prob did discard Mafia GF and if so that’s very good news.

On balance I’m town reading both bozo, Damo and Kgray of the back of this.

Well in the scumchat in M1011 when Jamie GM'd and we had mafia PRs, the roles were not included in the QT. We had to ask each other once the game started.

But I think you're right, it doesn't make a lot of sense for someone to lie about discarding a unique scum role. I don't think that bozo discarding GF says anything about bozo's alignment, though.

[Hamilton Brian]

What does your last sentence mean? Are you saying it's unlikely that they're scum voting together now, but if they keep voting together then they're more likely scum?

I'm not sure what it means. I think I was trying to indicate that there would be an unlikely case of this happening. Should the Bozo wagon gain traction, and Bozo flips town, down the road as we get more information, it makes Damo and Macca look sus together, along with anyone else that was on it.

More a case of me typing as I think. Given that we're unlikely to see Macca back before EOD, I think my argument/logic holds no water.

[kgray]

Because I didn't think through that they would only know names of partners and not roles. Having just caught up and read your response, I think it's not as convincing. But there's many layers of WIFOM here.

Okay, well scumpoints to Bunny for saying something is a "really good point" without actually thinking about the point.

Huh, I'm surprised you didn't go with: "I don't want to give Bunny townpoints for messing this up, but scum!Bunny would have been sure not to screw up and draw attention."

I don't care, the whole thing from the first post until this one is WIFOM. But that feels more like kgray.

lmao I'm not going to give you townpoints for agreeing with logic that only takes a few seconds of thought to fault. Why bother saying something is a good point if you don't think through it? Sounds like something scum!Bunny might do to encourage scumreads on bozo and/or make it seem like he's contributing.

And I don't know what you think is wifom. Nothing about my point is wifom. Maniac's might have been, if it had made sense, but mine is simply about your reaction.

[BunnyGo]

Okay, well scumpoints to Bunny for saying something is a "really good point" without actually thinking about the point.

Huh, I'm surprised you didn't go with: "I don't want to give Bunny townpoints for messing this up, but scum!Bunny would have been sure not to screw up and draw attention."

I don't care, the whole thing from the first post until this one is WIFOM. But that feels more like kgray.

lmao I'm not going to give you townpoints for agreeing with logic that only takes a few seconds of thought to fault. Why bother saying something is a good point if you don't think through it? Sounds like something scum!Bunny might do to encourage scumreads on bozo and/or make it seem like he's contributing.

And I don't know what you think is wifom. Nothing about my point is wifom. Maniac's might have been, if it had made sense, but mine is simply about your reaction.

The WIFOM is that *everyone but you townslipped*

Do we believe those townslips?

[BunnyGo]

Ezio is still here! And so is lfschl

[Hamilton Brian]

I think I missed the townslips. Or the purported townslips.

[Maniac]

Why do you assumne that damo didn't realize scum!bozo would know who his teammates are?

Also, when Mafia role PMs are sent out, I think they usually just include the player names and not their roles? I've deleted mine from M1011, but I remember talking in the QT about who got what role, and Jamie GM'd that one too. Plus in the role PMs listed in the setup it just includes names of teammates, not roles. So scum wouldn't know who has what roles until they get to their QT.

Fair point, but if bozo chose say a mafia goon, his confirmation PM may only give him his scum buddy names but isn’t the QT link given at the same time which list the team mates AND their roles. If so bozo could see that someone else is Mafia GF and he is safe in claiming to discard that role. However it’s risky as what if we daykill Mafia GF now. Bozo is exposed as a liar without a good reason, as far as I can tell. Therefore I think bozo prob did discard Mafia GF and if so that’s very good news.

On balance I’m town reading both bozo, Damo and Kgray of the back of this.

Well in the scumchat in M1011 when Jamie GM'd and we had mafia PRs, the roles were not included in the QT. We had to ask each other once the game started.

But I think you're right, it doesn't make a lot of sense for someone to lie about discarding a unique scum role. I don't think that bozo discarding GF says anything about bozo's alignment, though.

It’s worth asking the question.

##callGM - when scum are sent their final role PM, are they given a link to the mafia QT and does that QT included a list of all mafia and their roles?