MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[seth24c]

Agree. You should not blindly follow the dead townies, but at least consider his thoughts as you can be sure they are town motivated.

Townies are often killed because their reads are wrong and scum want to crystallize those views. The other side of the coin is that players with good reads are kept around to avoid suspicion that "X was pushing Q hard, therefor Q probably killed X" when Q is scum. So actually, HR's top reads are probably not scum.

I don't think we can speculate one way or another

Agreed, it could easily be either scenario.

[Foxcastle]

Agree. You should not blindly follow the dead townies, but at least consider his thoughts as you can be sure they are town motivated.

Townies are often killed because their reads are wrong and scum want to crystallize those views. The other side of the coin is that players with good reads are kept around to avoid suspicion that "X was pushing Q hard, therefor Q probably killed X" when Q is scum. So actually, HR's top reads are probably not scum.

I don't think we can speculate one way or another

We can and we should, within reason.

[Foxcastle]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

[Durga]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

Really? Who's scummy on it? Do you think if worcej was scum that scum would attempt to save him this early?

[damo666]

##vote emc

Why?

Because he is Bismarck

[ghug]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

Who specifically looks scummy on it?

[summit_fever]

I think Fox may be correct in that it's possible no scum were there on the top wagons on day 1. So many semivanity and vanity wagons with very little movement.

Tell me more about your thoughts on this.

I haven't put that much thought into it. I just considered what I would do if it was town vs town and quiet. I'd want to be on one of the lower wagons. We don't know that it was town vs town, but it is the most likely outcome.

Also, if the 3P is the witch they would be aghast at a tie, and a tie was a very possible outcome. Of course with the endtime confusion we can't know if we are seeing the results of motivations in the final vote tally.

[ghug]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

Who specifically looks scummy on it?

AKA would you like to vote for Prado with me?


@Prado since you're so fond at harping on people who don't directly answer your questions: you still haven't given me your thoughts on other people.

[summit_fever]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

You are reading Prado and myself as scum, so you read our interactions as scum vs scum. Do you really think we'd "make up" and then hop on the same leading wagon?

I think Prado has been coming from a town perspective, though I don't know their game at all. I don't see Rivera as scum at all. Maybe Durga, but I'm still okay townreading her.

[summit_fever]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

You are reading Prado and myself as scum, so you read our interactions as scum vs scum. Do you really think we'd "make up" and then hop on the same leading wagon?

I think Prado has been coming from a town perspective, though I don't know their game at all. I don't see Rivera as scum at all. Maybe Durga, but I'm still okay townreading her.

I thought Durga's "woe-is-me won't I ever townread you summit?" to be a little much and perhaps scum-motivated.

[Foxcastle]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

Really? Who's scummy on it? Do you think if worcej was scum that scum would attempt to save him this early?

Rdr, Summit, TrPrado. And no, I don't think they'd try to save him this early. At least Rdr and TrPrado should know that his wagon will likely evaporate naturally (not sure about Summit's experience, other than he's been around a few games).

But it's definitely clarifying for me that a bunch of my reads are jumping on and off a bunch of my other reads.

[Foxcastle]

I think Fox may be correct in that it's possible no scum were there on the top wagons on day 1. So many semivanity and vanity wagons with very little movement.

Tell me more about your thoughts on this.

I haven't put that much thought into it. I just considered what I would do if it was town vs town and quiet. I'd want to be on one of the lower wagons. We don't know that it was town vs town, but it is the most likely outcome.

Also, if the 3P is the witch they would be aghast at a tie, and a tie was a very possible outcome. Of course with the endtime confusion we can't know if we are seeing the results of motivations in the final vote tally.

I just find it interesting that I never said that there were no scum on the top wagons on Day 1, but you seem to think I did.

[seth24c]

I think Fox may be correct in that it's possible no scum were there on the top wagons on day 1. So many semivanity and vanity wagons with very little movement.

Tell me more about your thoughts on this.

I haven't put that much thought into it. I just considered what I would do if it was town vs town and quiet. I'd want to be on one of the lower wagons. We don't know that it was town vs town, but it is the most likely outcome.

Also, if the 3P is the witch they would be aghast at a tie, and a tie was a very possible outcome. Of course with the endtime confusion we can't know if we are seeing the results of motivations in the final vote tally.

I think there is a good chance it was town v town. I think if there was scum on the wagon's it was likely to be on the bunny wagon. Scum would have been happy to have argued against the Bismarck wagon to claim town points after the flip.

Since we know bunny was town being on the Bismarck wagon that late in the phase doesn't make much sense as scum. They would either be bussing day 1 if bismarck/emc is scum, or having to explain their vote that flipped a town aligned player who didn't say much if the slot was town.

[Foxcastle]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

Who specifically looks scummy on it?

AKA would you like to vote for Prado with me?


@Prado since you're so fond at harping on people who don't directly answer your questions: you still haven't given me your thoughts on other people.

I really want to vote summit, but I would be fine seeing what happens if TrPrado gets in the running.

##VOTE TRPRADO

[ghug]

Tell me more about your thoughts on this.

I haven't put that much thought into it. I just considered what I would do if it was town vs town and quiet. I'd want to be on one of the lower wagons. We don't know that it was town vs town, but it is the most likely outcome.

Also, if the 3P is the witch they would be aghast at a tie, and a tie was a very possible outcome. Of course with the endtime confusion we can't know if we are seeing the results of motivations in the final vote tally.

I think there is a good chance it was town v town. I think if there was scum on the wagon's it was likely to be on the bunny wagon. Scum would have been happy to have argued against the Bismarck wagon to claim town points after the flip.

Since we know bunny was town being on the Bismarck wagon that late in the phase doesn't make much sense as scum. They would either be bussing day 1 if bismarck/emc is scum, or having to explain their vote that flipped a town aligned player who didn't say much if the slot was town.

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. Are you just saying that you think voting for Bunny was more justifiable?

[ghug]

Who specifically looks scummy on it?

AKA would you like to vote for Prado with me?


@Prado since you're so fond at harping on people who don't directly answer your questions: you still haven't given me your thoughts on other people.

I really want to vote summit, but I would be fine seeing what happens if TrPrado gets in the running.

##VOTE TRPRADO

Ayy

[summit_fever]

Tell me more about your thoughts on this.

I haven't put that much thought into it. I just considered what I would do if it was town vs town and quiet. I'd want to be on one of the lower wagons. We don't know that it was town vs town, but it is the most likely outcome.

Also, if the 3P is the witch they would be aghast at a tie, and a tie was a very possible outcome. Of course with the endtime confusion we can't know if we are seeing the results of motivations in the final vote tally.

I just find it interesting that I never said that there were no scum on the top wagons on Day 1, but you seem to think I did.

That's true. "driving any outcome" "capable of getting to yesterday's eod unassisted". These made me consider the possibility.

[TrPrado]

Yoyo’s wagon looks super scummy to me. Maybe he’s not scum. Or at least maybe Yoyo and Worcej aren’t scum together.

Who specifically looks scummy on it?

AKA would you like to vote for Prado with me?


@Prado since you're so fond at harping on people who don't directly answer your questions: you still haven't given me your thoughts on other people.

My other top town reads are damo and seth, but they're kinda obv at this point aren't they? I don't understand what people are targeting you for but I've always found you really easy to read anyway and I haven't picked any kind of scummy vibe from you, the three of you actually seem like you care even if you are all off base and I disagree with literally everything you're saying.

I honestly don't get the worcej push. "But the meta!" has never been a compelling argument for me.

rdrivera is kinda hedgy and jumping around without notice or reason from what it looks like.

I know bo, Durga, and Vecna have been really vocal but like, I can't get a beat on them? If I had to say anything Durga is probably town but like I would have to reread for the others to say for sure.

[Foxcastle]

I haven't put that much thought into it. I just considered what I would do if it was town vs town and quiet. I'd want to be on one of the lower wagons. We don't know that it was town vs town, but it is the most likely outcome.

Also, if the 3P is the witch they would be aghast at a tie, and a tie was a very possible outcome. Of course with the endtime confusion we can't know if we are seeing the results of motivations in the final vote tally.

I just find it interesting that I never said that there were no scum on the top wagons on Day 1, but you seem to think I did.

That's true. "driving any outcome" "capable of getting to yesterday's eod unassisted". These made me consider the possibility.

I think that’s a huge leap. I think a townie who thought what you did would call me out for an idea that’s (not impossible but) pretty unlikely. Whereas I think a scum who thought it might try to propagate a bad idea.

[seth24c]

I haven't put that much thought into it. I just considered what I would do if it was town vs town and quiet. I'd want to be on one of the lower wagons. We don't know that it was town vs town, but it is the most likely outcome.

Also, if the 3P is the witch they would be aghast at a tie, and a tie was a very possible outcome. Of course with the endtime confusion we can't know if we are seeing the results of motivations in the final vote tally.

I think there is a good chance it was town v town. I think if there was scum on the wagon's it was likely to be on the bunny wagon. Scum would have been happy to have argued against the Bismarck wagon to claim town points after the flip.

Since we know bunny was town being on the Bismarck wagon that late in the phase doesn't make much sense as scum. They would either be bussing day 1 if bismarck/emc is scum, or having to explain their vote that flipped a town aligned player who didn't say much if the slot was town.

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. Are you just saying that you think voting for Bunny was more justifiable?

No I'm saying that from the scum point of view there was no reason at all to be on the Bismarck wagon whether he was aligned town or aligned scum. Remember that the bunny wagon was gaining votes before the Bismarck wagon. So for scum to grow that wagon to buss or just to get Bismarck instead of town bunny makes no sense.