MAFIA 67 OFFICIAL GAME THREAD —//—//— CURSE OF THE AZURE BONDS [hidden]

[foodcoats]

So in more direct response to you HB, my thought process is HR had a read that damo was scum and was more confident in it than the fake claim. HR made it pretty blatantly obvious that he scummed damo right around when the claim happened and the only possibility of being so sure of that would be if he was cop, which scum would also know.

So, FWIW, my EON1 reads list comment for damo was built based on my read that HR was the cop signalling that damo was lying. Then, N1 processed and these things happened:

1. HR died. I think it's entirely safe to assume scum thought he was cop.
2. I was jailed. My thought is the scum thought I was poisoner asking for advice (something I would credit ghug for pushing over anyone else)
3. Damo got a 'free action'.

Use some logic here - what do you think is reality?

I think it’s also possible and rather simplified that Vecna is scum and HR got the “most respected” slot of N1 NK.

[worcej]

I think that we can almost guarantee one of HR's scumreads was right. Why? well...

He's the poisoner, and I think it very unlikely that he held, so why was there no death?

1. JOAT healed someone.
Why would any JOAT do this? Only JOAT!Damo protecting himself could cause this. (and the HR hits damo; also unlikely)

2. HR hit the mound.
This makes perfect sense. He targeted a scumread and stuck gold. Only to be killed and have the poison nullified.

TL;DR I think the Mound is within HR's scumreads

Trying to get the role info in here to compare:
Poisoner: If poisoner targets a jailed person or the shambler the action will fail right away.

Heal: Choose target player at night. That player cannot be killed and you will learn if they were attacked. The person saved will also learn they survived. A person healed will also be saved from poison, should the poisoner target them that night.

Mound: You are immune to poison and lightning. During a day phase once per game you may smother another player silencing them for the remainder of the day. Players silenced in this way will not be able to be eliminated and will survive daykilling. Silencing will be announced in the game thread.


I think the odds of HR hitting the mound so early is so low.

What's more likely? JOAT healing the poisoned player or poisoner hitting mound?
And so what? Just seems like some perverse navelgazing to rabbithole down.

I think people automatically assuming that the odds of HR withholding to be low are making a mistake.

Its one thing to keep your vote on a target that claimed to be a PR. Its another entirely to kill off that claimant without a PR counterclaim. Especially in a situation where a single counterclaim yields so much information.

And HR couldve also grasped the possibility of Ghug being a potential cop. And he knows he's been very wrong on Damo a lot in recent games.

So, why do people wanna push the narrative now that its a given he poisoned someone?

HR is a thoughtful player, and while he believes in his own ability, he's also rational about these things.

My leading thought is HR held his action. I was hoping he had not, but who knows for sure?

[Vecna]

Although I townread the damo wagon, except Vecna, who seems off.

Can you expand on this a bit?

You’re playing really tight.

What does this mean exactly, and what would you like me to do differently?

[President Eden]

Anyway, HB just now getting indignant over a sus that I've had on him since just after the D1 flip is...a thing.

Am I?

As was just quoted by another player you kinda went all full on over the glasses 'why did I townread you' like waking up next to a 2 you swear was a 9 halfway through that bottle of Jack last night.

Yes, very perplexing. Gimix seems ultra towny to me. Maybe Perpwave has a scan on him?

@Perp why you voting gimix? Should we sheep you?

It strikes me as rather awful, if you are the JOAT, and we’re set to lose or have neutralized a second of three PRs on D2, that you are PR fishing.

+1

On one hand, it sounds like a terrible idea to be killing an unCC'd PR. Why would scum be afraid of HR being cop when it would be impossible for cop HR to have scanned Damo already? Then again, it bothers me how scummy Damo feels atm.

Cop learns identity of JOAT n0, so mafia would be afraid of the Cop if one of their own had to fakeclaim JOAT.

[Vecna]

So in more direct response to you HB, my thought process is HR had a read that damo was scum and was more confident in it than the fake claim. HR made it pretty blatantly obvious that he scummed damo right around when the claim happened and the only possibility of being so sure of that would be if he was cop, which scum would also know.

So, FWIW, my EON1 reads list comment for damo was built based on my read that HR was the cop signalling that damo was lying. Then, N1 processed and these things happened:

1. HR died. I think it's entirely safe to assume scum thought he was cop.
2. I was jailed. My thought is the scum thought I was poisoner asking for advice (something I would credit ghug for pushing over anyone else)
3. Damo got a 'free action'.

Use some logic here - what do you think is reality?

I think it’s also possible and rather simplified that Vecna is scum and HR got the “most respected” slot of N1 NK.

*SQUAWK*

I love it when a plan cums together

[worcej]

So in more direct response to you HB, my thought process is HR had a read that damo was scum and was more confident in it than the fake claim. HR made it pretty blatantly obvious that he scummed damo right around when the claim happened and the only possibility of being so sure of that would be if he was cop, which scum would also know.

So, FWIW, my EON1 reads list comment for damo was built based on my read that HR was the cop signalling that damo was lying. Then, N1 processed and these things happened:

1. HR died. I think it's entirely safe to assume scum thought he was cop.
2. I was jailed. My thought is the scum thought I was poisoner asking for advice (something I would credit ghug for pushing over anyone else)
3. Damo got a 'free action'.

Use some logic here - what do you think is reality?

Im just gonna continue playing devils advocate (while voting to kill off damo, because why the fuck not)...

If scum knew Damo was town, why would they not act exactly like this?

*killing HR gives credibility to people thinking scum thought he was the cop, ergo raising suspicion of Damo
*Killing HR also circumvents the very likely scenario that the JOAT self-saved, ergo no failed kill.
*Jailing someone other than damo raises further suspicion on Damo
*Setting up damo the JOAT as a d2 misskill is likely to get the cop to out in scums mind. The cop is pretty much the only real danger to scum in this setup.

I feel Damo's play is incredibly scummy here, dont get me wrong. It really feels like he has given up. But everyone pretending like this could not just be a simple play by scum to get damo misskilled is being a bit delusional imo.

(to add to this; if Damo is scum, why on earth jailkeep a random person? that shit just completely seals his fate. The only way you can justify that is if youre 100% certain HR is going to flip cop, which noone could realistically be).

My simple response is this:
Do you believe a scum team would risk damo using tracking or motion detecting one of them to sow this confusion?

I personally, do not. And I base this off of reading many scum chats during previous games. Scum teams have yet to take major gambles when they don't need to, they've done it when shit hits the fan.

[DemonRHK]

Im just gonna continue playing devils advocate (while voting to kill off damo, because why the fuck not)...

If scum knew Damo was town, why would they not act exactly like this?

*killing HR gives credibility to people thinking scum thought he was the cop, ergo raising suspicion of Damo
*Killing HR also circumvents the very likely scenario that the JOAT self-saved, ergo no failed kill.
*Jailing someone other than damo raises further suspicion on Damo
*Setting up damo the JOAT as a d2 misskill is likely to get the cop to out in scums mind. The cop is pretty much the only real danger to scum in this setup.

I feel Damo's play is incredibly scummy here, dont get me wrong. It really feels like he has given up. But everyone pretending like this could not just be a simple play by scum to get damo misskilled is being a bit delusional imo.

(to add to this; if Damo is scum, why on earth jailkeep a random person? that shit just completely seals his fate. The only way you can justify that is if youre 100% certain HR is going to flip cop, which noone could realistically be).

You know what one of the biggest mark against damo is?

Real JOAT damo 100% immediately comes out with a report. There is no world where he doesn't confirm worc as visited and retract it at EoN2. Even if you popped the heal you bluff it.

This is just a way to stringing town along as long as possible.

[worcej]

Im just gonna continue playing devils advocate (while voting to kill off damo, because why the fuck not)...

If scum knew Damo was town, why would they not act exactly like this?

*killing HR gives credibility to people thinking scum thought he was the cop, ergo raising suspicion of Damo
*Killing HR also circumvents the very likely scenario that the JOAT self-saved, ergo no failed kill.
*Jailing someone other than damo raises further suspicion on Damo
*Setting up damo the JOAT as a d2 misskill is likely to get the cop to out in scums mind. The cop is pretty much the only real danger to scum in this setup.

I feel Damo's play is incredibly scummy here, dont get me wrong. It really feels like he has given up. But everyone pretending like this could not just be a simple play by scum to get damo misskilled is being a bit delusional imo.

(to add to this; if Damo is scum, why on earth jailkeep a random person? that shit just completely seals his fate. The only way you can justify that is if youre 100% certain HR is going to flip cop, which noone could realistically be).

You know what one of the biggest mark against damo is?

Real JOAT damo 100% immediately comes out with a report. There is no world where he doesn't confirm worc as visited and retract it at EoN2. Even if you popped the heal you bluff it.

This is just a way to stringing town along as long as possible.

Fuck, are you me?!

WHY ARE WE THINKING THE SAME SO MUCH?!?!?!

[worcej]

You also know why damo is fucking scum?

THERE IS A GOD DAMN SCUM DAY KILL IN THIS GAME!!!

Town!PR Damo would've said his N1 actions ASAP instead of risk dying from that.

[Vecna]

So in more direct response to you HB, my thought process is HR had a read that damo was scum and was more confident in it than the fake claim. HR made it pretty blatantly obvious that he scummed damo right around when the claim happened and the only possibility of being so sure of that would be if he was cop, which scum would also know.

So, FWIW, my EON1 reads list comment for damo was built based on my read that HR was the cop signalling that damo was lying. Then, N1 processed and these things happened:

1. HR died. I think it's entirely safe to assume scum thought he was cop.
2. I was jailed. My thought is the scum thought I was poisoner asking for advice (something I would credit ghug for pushing over anyone else)
3. Damo got a 'free action'.

Use some logic here - what do you think is reality?

Im just gonna continue playing devils advocate (while voting to kill off damo, because why the fuck not)...

If scum knew Damo was town, why would they not act exactly like this?

*killing HR gives credibility to people thinking scum thought he was the cop, ergo raising suspicion of Damo
*Killing HR also circumvents the very likely scenario that the JOAT self-saved, ergo no failed kill.
*Jailing someone other than damo raises further suspicion on Damo
*Setting up damo the JOAT as a d2 misskill is likely to get the cop to out in scums mind. The cop is pretty much the only real danger to scum in this setup.

I feel Damo's play is incredibly scummy here, dont get me wrong. It really feels like he has given up. But everyone pretending like this could not just be a simple play by scum to get damo misskilled is being a bit delusional imo.

(to add to this; if Damo is scum, why on earth jailkeep a random person? that shit just completely seals his fate. The only way you can justify that is if youre 100% certain HR is going to flip cop, which noone could realistically be).

My simple response is this:
Do you believe a scum team would risk damo using tracking or motion detecting one of them to sow this confusion?

I personally, do not. And I base this off of reading many scum chats during previous games. Scum teams have yet to take major gambles when they don't need to, they've done it when shit hits the fan.

Its a 50/50 whether the JOAT uses the heal N1 or N2 (in the best case scenario, I think its always weighted towards N1).

And then a 1/15 to hit the only scum with an action (it was 17 players to start right?)

And they wouldnt take that small risk to sow confusion. Theyd take it to misskill the JOAT or have the cop out themselves.

--------------------------

Alternatively, ill ask you the counter-point

Do you think its more likely that Scum Ghug tries to out himself the way he did to save teammate damo? Or that he was trying to gently push a wagon on Chaqa in the hopes that Damo could stay hidden?

Maybe I have too high of an estimate of Ghug. But I dont think he started that wagon on Chaqa randomly for the sake of it.

[Vecna]

Im just gonna continue playing devils advocate (while voting to kill off damo, because why the fuck not)...

If scum knew Damo was town, why would they not act exactly like this?

*killing HR gives credibility to people thinking scum thought he was the cop, ergo raising suspicion of Damo
*Killing HR also circumvents the very likely scenario that the JOAT self-saved, ergo no failed kill.
*Jailing someone other than damo raises further suspicion on Damo
*Setting up damo the JOAT as a d2 misskill is likely to get the cop to out in scums mind. The cop is pretty much the only real danger to scum in this setup.

I feel Damo's play is incredibly scummy here, dont get me wrong. It really feels like he has given up. But everyone pretending like this could not just be a simple play by scum to get damo misskilled is being a bit delusional imo.

(to add to this; if Damo is scum, why on earth jailkeep a random person? that shit just completely seals his fate. The only way you can justify that is if youre 100% certain HR is going to flip cop, which noone could realistically be).

You know what one of the biggest mark against damo is?

Real JOAT damo 100% immediately comes out with a report. There is no world where he doesn't confirm worc as visited and retract it at EoN2. Even if you popped the heal you bluff it.

This is just a way to stringing town along as long as possible.

This is actually a good point though

[Vecna]

Quoted the wrong post, thought Worcej and RHK were saying the same thing

[President Eden]

They're both good points

And damo ain't doin shit

##END

[Vecna]

You also know why damo is fucking scum?

THERE IS A GOD DAMN SCUM DAY KILL IN THIS GAME!!!

Town!PR Damo would've said his N1 actions ASAP instead of risk dying from that.

Also, the daykill is on the guy without access to the scumchat. He would also just have to be guessing whether damo is scum or JOAT.

Imagine the lulz we'd have if scum shot their own guy

[Vecna]

Eden, if Damo does flip town, who is scum?

[foodcoats]

Can you expand on this a bit?

You’re playing really tight.

What does this mean exactly, and what would you like me to do differently?

Normally you're a little more tinfoily and mixin' it up; you have a similar style to brainbomb. You've basically only talked about damo/ghug/JOAT this game. This level of fixation suggests your thinking is rigidified because you're scum.

[worcej]

Alternatively, ill ask you the counter-point

Do you think its more likely that Scum Ghug tries to out himself the way he did to save teammate damo? Or that he was trying to gently push a wagon on Chaqa in the hopes that Damo could stay hidden?

Maybe I have too high of an estimate of Ghug. But I dont think he started that wagon on Chaqa randomly for the sake of it.

I don't credit ghug with starting the Chaqa wagon at all. He voiced approval in it happening, but really Demon and then damo started it and ghug then tied it between damo and Chaqa, making it viable for other people to stumble onto.

In my head, who strongly thinks damo is scum, my gut is ghug made his move to try to shift the wagon onto Chaqa to save damo before shit hit the fan.

[foodcoats]

You also know why damo is fucking scum?

THERE IS A GOD DAMN SCUM DAY KILL IN THIS GAME!!!

Town!PR Damo would've said his N1 actions ASAP instead of risk dying from that.

That's not necessarily true, there's a lot of ways JOAT!damo could've had an inconclusive turn.

I partly want to end hammer damo as well just because this is a shitty day.

[worcej]

You also know why damo is fucking scum?

THERE IS A GOD DAMN SCUM DAY KILL IN THIS GAME!!!

Town!PR Damo would've said his N1 actions ASAP instead of risk dying from that.

Also, the daykill is on the guy without access to the scumchat. He would also just have to be guessing whether damo is scum or JOAT.

Imagine the lulz we'd have if scum shot their own guy

I think damo is the actual sniper FWIW. His JOAT claim was optimum, but his lack of trying and shuttling off leaves me to expect he's not getting any coaching or coordinating from his team.

[President Eden]

Eden, if Damo does flip town, who is scum?

deez nuts