MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[FlaviusAetius]

I agree with lynching Frostwind, but not today. Like people have said, his voting habbits appear non-town. We should lynch ND or Chaqa on principal that it will get us somewhere. Conceivably, it could be bad to kill a doctor... but we'd also be killing a Night Kill PR. Also, we have another doctor already. Arguably having the doctors coordinate is tricky and not guaranteed. So due to possible overlap, I'd only consider it more like 1 ½ doctors.
Anyways, everyone saying don't lynch ND or Chaqa are looking scummy to me.

Why risk it when we dont have too???? You haven't addressed anything at all, all you did was talk about mechanics. And what about the arguments against lynching Frost? You didn't even address those. Your just repeating what other people said, and no backing for why, and claim anyone who disagrees with said people is scummy,

[xorxes]

Did both teams and Hyde really follow ND s crumbs?
ND, with all respect, doesn't usually get gear killed n1. In fact, vecna and xorxes were not hit. Unless they were hit and aren't claiming. Were one of the scum teams newbies? Did Bob's team tie? Was Hyde sleeping?
Chaqa, when claiming, said that he'd received notice that Hyde had not killed. Did ND receive such a notice?

I only said that *after* ND said his - I hadn't read the setup as thoroughly as I claimed and missed that, along with the Jack being an even-night killer part.

ND's claim seems really solid. Absorbing one kill (from a team who must have read him as Sherlock like I did) and the roleblock - likely he was hit by Team 2.

Team 1 likely hit the commuter

Why do you think it more likely that ND was hit by Team 2 than by Team 1. I don't see how anyone can distinguish unless they're in one of those teams.

[xorxes]

Did both teams and Hyde really follow ND s crumbs?
ND, with all respect, doesn't usually get gear killed n1. In fact, vecna and xorxes were not hit. Unless they were hit and aren't claiming. Were one of the scum teams newbies? Did Bob's team tie? Was Hyde sleeping?
Chaqa, when claiming, said that he'd received notice that Hyde had not killed. Did ND receive such a notice?

Since nobody is counterclaiming ND, there's no reason to doubt that he, and therefore Hyde, was roleblocked, and that's why there was no kill from Hyde.

[xorxes]

I’m going to say this again:

YOU ARE ALL VOTING TO 50/50 A DOCTOR ROLE WHEN WE DO NOT NEED TO. THIS IS A DAY 3 LYNCH, NOT A DAY 2.

Damo is shooting up my scumreads, I’m really happy n frost. I advocate anyone with at least half a brain staying away from this ND/Chaqa shit to read and consider a frost wagon.

Ok...so...we want to kill one of them tomorrow and one today, right? This is what you’re saying? WHEN WILL WE LYNCH BOTH IF NOT TODAY?

One dies tonight.

@Flav: take a breath and stop to think for one minute.

Nobody tried to kill Chaqa last night. There's no reason to assume that anybody will try to kill him tonight. He is a likely lynch candidate. Mafia have no reason to kill him.

One or both Mafia teams tried to kill ND, but they were not targeting Jekyll. There was no reason for them to think ND was Jekyll. It seems some people thought ND was Holmes, so Mafia may have been targeting Holmes. Now we know that ND is almost certainly Jekyll. Mafia will most likely not try to kill him again now that they know he is Jekyll.

Now wait. Don't respond. Stop to think. Then respond.

[xorxes]

@ND - who are you scumreading?

@damo - why did you vote me right after I subbed in with no explanarion and then put me as a ? In your reads?

I'm curious to know what he meant by "think about it" too.

[Chaqa]

Did both teams and Hyde really follow ND s crumbs?
ND, with all respect, doesn't usually get gear killed n1. In fact, vecna and xorxes were not hit. Unless they were hit and aren't claiming. Were one of the scum teams newbies? Did Bob's team tie? Was Hyde sleeping?
Chaqa, when claiming, said that he'd received notice that Hyde had not killed. Did ND receive such a notice?

I only said that *after* ND said his - I hadn't read the setup as thoroughly as I claimed and missed that, along with the Jack being an even-night killer part.

ND's claim seems really solid. Absorbing one kill (from a team who must have read him as Sherlock like I did) and the roleblock - likely he was hit by Team 2.

Team 1 likely hit the commuter

Why do you think it more likely that ND was hit by Team 2 than by Team 1. I don't see how anyone can distinguish unless they're in one of those teams.

Well, Team 2 certainly roleblocked him. Why wouldn't they also be killing him?

[xorxes]

Two things that bother me:

1) Why did Vecna vote for Chaqa before ND claimed, when there was no reason to suspect that Chaqa was not Jekyll.

2) Why did Chaqa vote for ND when ND claimed Jekyll.

[Chaqa]

I'll be intermittent for the rest of the evening, but I'll check in later on. I'm sure ND specifically wants to talk.

[Chaqa]

Two things that bother me:

1) Why did Vecna vote for Chaqa before ND claimed, when there was no reason to suspect that Chaqa was not Jekyll.

2) Why did Chaqa vote for ND when ND claimed Jekyll.

Can't speak to #1, but for #2, it was part of my plan - to stick to my guns and force people to pick a side because mafia knew ND was telling the truth, but townies didn't.

[xorxes]

I only said that *after* ND said his - I hadn't read the setup as thoroughly as I claimed and missed that, along with the Jack being an even-night killer part.

ND's claim seems really solid. Absorbing one kill (from a team who must have read him as Sherlock like I did) and the roleblock - likely he was hit by Team 2.

Team 1 likely hit the commuter

Why do you think it more likely that ND was hit by Team 2 than by Team 1. I don't see how anyone can distinguish unless they're in one of those teams.

Well, Team 2 certainly roleblocked him. Why wouldn't they also be killing him?

OK, that's a reasonable point. Although if they were going to kill him there was not that much point in roleblocking him since if he was Dr Watson he could not save himself.

[CmdrLikely]

I agree with lynching Frostwind, but not today. Like people have said, his voting habbits appear non-town. We should lynch ND or Chaqa on principal that it will get us somewhere. Conceivably, it could be bad to kill a doctor... but we'd also be killing a Night Kill PR. Also, we have another doctor already. Arguably having the doctors coordinate is tricky and not guaranteed. So due to possible overlap, I'd only consider it more like 1 ½ doctors.
Anyways, everyone saying don't lynch ND or Chaqa are looking scummy to me.

Explain why you think lynching ND is a good option for today now that Chaqa has retracted his claim.

I believe you mean why I'm voting ND today then Chaqa tomorrow opposed to the other way around? Because ND is annoying, that's why. Otherwise I don't feel the order is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If we fail to lynch one of them in the next two nights, then we are screwing ourselves, otherwise we come out ahead. Both ND and Chaqa gave the arguments why they both should be lynched, and yes I'm just agreeing, not adding anything.

[xorxes]

Two things that bother me:

1) Why did Vecna vote for Chaqa before ND claimed, when there was no reason to suspect that Chaqa was not Jekyll.

2) Why did Chaqa vote for ND when ND claimed Jekyll.

Can't speak to #1, but for #2, it was part of my plan - to stick to my guns and force people to pick a side because mafia knew ND was telling the truth, but townies didn't.

It became very obvious after a while that ND's claim was much more solid than yours though. Were you expecting townies to believe you? Were you expecting scum to vote for ND or for you?

[FlaviusAetius]

Ok...so...we want to kill one of them tomorrow and one today, right? This is what you’re saying? WHEN WILL WE LYNCH BOTH IF NOT TODAY?

One dies tonight.

@Flav: take a breath and stop to think for one minute.

Nobody tried to kill Chaqa last night. There's no reason to assume that anybody will try to kill him tonight. He is a likely lynch candidate. Mafia have no reason to kill him.

One or both Mafia teams tried to kill ND, but they were not targeting Jekyll. There was no reason for them to think ND was Jekyll. It seems some people thought ND was Holmes, so Mafia may have been targeting Holmes. Now we know that ND is almost certainly Jekyll. Mafia will most likely not try to kill him again now that they know he is Jekyll.

Now wait. Don't respond. Stop to think. Then respond.

Ok I hear you, but this is literally there one and only opportunity to get a surefire kill on Jekyll, why wouldnt they try? Also Jack is in play tonight as well, and he most assuredly does not want a wild man Hyde potentially kill him, guranteed the real Jekyll dies tonight, and we get to have an easy scum kill tomorrow.
I understand you that they might think he is Holmes, but 1) Bob died, the genius aka the anti-detective, so unlikely
2) this is again there one and only chance to get a surefire kill on jekyll, something their absolutely going to do

[CmdrLikely]

I agree with lynching Frostwind, but not today. Like people have said, his voting habbits appear non-town. We should lynch ND or Chaqa on principal that it will get us somewhere. Conceivably, it could be bad to kill a doctor... but we'd also be killing a Night Kill PR. Also, we have another doctor already. Arguably having the doctors coordinate is tricky and not guaranteed. So due to possible overlap, I'd only consider it more like 1 ½ doctors.
Anyways, everyone saying don't lynch ND or Chaqa are looking scummy to me.

Why risk it when we dont have too???? You haven't addressed anything at all, all you did was talk about mechanics. And what about the arguments against lynching Frost? You didn't even address those. Your just repeating what other people said, and no backing for why, and claim anyone who disagrees with said people is scummy,

I don't know what risk there is? It's a sure thing that we get rid of Hyde and someone we don't trust. Why would you not want that.

As for Frostwind, let me review what you mean by arguments against. I don't remember any.

[xorxes]

I agree with lynching Frostwind, but not today. Like people have said, his voting habbits appear non-town. We should lynch ND or Chaqa on principal that it will get us somewhere. Conceivably, it could be bad to kill a doctor... but we'd also be killing a Night Kill PR. Also, we have another doctor already. Arguably having the doctors coordinate is tricky and not guaranteed. So due to possible overlap, I'd only consider it more like 1 ½ doctors.
Anyways, everyone saying don't lynch ND or Chaqa are looking scummy to me.

Explain why you think lynching ND is a good option for today now that Chaqa has retracted his claim.

I believe you mean why I'm voting ND today then Chaqa tomorrow opposed to the other way around? Because ND is annoying, that's why. Otherwise I don't feel the order is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If we fail to lynch one of them in the next two nights, then we are screwing ourselves, otherwise we come out ahead. Both ND and Chaqa gave the arguments why they both should be lynched, and yes I'm just agreeing, not adding anything.

Eliminating a town doc save today when Hyde will not be active tonight makes zero sense. Also, ND has stopped his annoying persona after his claim, and in any case lynching town because they're annoying is not pro-town.

[FlaviusAetius]

Because Jekyll is dying tonight that iss why, why are we doing the mafia's dirty work for them

[Tom Bombadil]

I think it would be useful for people to begin posting their townreads. I’m going to sort mine out this evening, along with people I would not want to see lynched and go from there. Early on townreads are sometimes easier to come by than finding scum

[CmdrLikely]

Explain why you think lynching ND is a good option for today now that Chaqa has retracted his claim.

I believe you mean why I'm voting ND today then Chaqa tomorrow opposed to the other way around? Because ND is annoying, that's why. Otherwise I don't feel the order is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If we fail to lynch one of them in the next two nights, then we are screwing ourselves, otherwise we come out ahead. Both ND and Chaqa gave the arguments why they both should be lynched, and yes I'm just agreeing, not adding anything.

Eliminating a town doc save today when Hyde will not be active tonight makes zero sense. Also, ND has stopped his annoying persona after his claim, and in any case lynching town because they're annoying is not pro-town.

Neither ND or Chaqa are town! They are town-liabilities. It's pedantic, but I want to clarify I'm not saying lynch ND "because he's annoying". I'm just prioritizing abitrarily. Maybe that does look not pro-town. I'm totally fine switching it.

##vote Chaqa

[xorxes]

Ok I hear you, but this is literally there one and only opportunity to get a surefire kill on Jekyll, why wouldnt they try? Also Jack is in play tonight as well, and he most assuredly does not want a wild man Hyde potentially kill him, guranteed the real Jekyll dies tonight, and we get to have an easy scum kill tomorrow.
I understand you that they might think he is Holmes, but 1) Bob died, the genius aka the anti-detective, so unlikely
2) this is again there one and only chance to get a surefire kill on jekyll, something their absolutely going to do

We're not lynching ND today. Only two people are voting for him and I doubt anyone else will join them. I suspect ItsHosuke may be town. I don't know whether CmdrLikely, I have no idea what he's doing.

As for Chaqa, the decision on whether or not to lynch him has nothing to do with Jekyll. We know Chaqa is not Jekyll. The only relevant question is whether he is town or scum. If we think he is town, we don't lynch him. If we think he is scum, we lynch him. It has nothing to do with Jekyll. And it most certainly has nothing to do with any expectation that Mafia will kill him for us. They won't.

[xorxes]

I believe you mean why I'm voting ND today then Chaqa tomorrow opposed to the other way around? Because ND is annoying, that's why. Otherwise I don't feel the order is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If we fail to lynch one of them in the next two nights, then we are screwing ourselves, otherwise we come out ahead. Both ND and Chaqa gave the arguments why they both should be lynched, and yes I'm just agreeing, not adding anything.

Eliminating a town doc save today when Hyde will not be active tonight makes zero sense. Also, ND has stopped his annoying persona after his claim, and in any case lynching town because they're annoying is not pro-town.

Neither ND or Chaqa are town! They are town-liabilities. It's pedantic, but I want to clarify I'm not saying lynch ND "because he's annoying". I'm just prioritizing abitrarily. Maybe that does look not pro-town. I'm totally fine switching it.

##vote Chaqa

ND is town. His doc-save will be town inspired. We may need to lynch him D3 to kill Hyde, or maybe not, it depends on what today's flip is and who dies N2. There's no reason to waste a potential doc save controlled by town.