M1027: Community - Game Thread

[heartthrob24909]

##CALL GM

Let Alice, Bob, and Charlie be players in our game. Let Alice and Bob be mafia and let Charlie be town.

If the 10 VTs vote like this:
4 votes for Charlie
3 votes for Alice
3 votes for Bob

Will investigation results be accurate or inaccurate? The relative majority of VTs have voted for a Town player but the absolute majority has voted for Mafia players.

(Btw fellow players - I would advocate that the votes not done this way but I want to know the answer to this Q. Apologies if it's already been asked)

I think this was asked in sign up thread. It would yield accurate results. Also, to-do math major names

Figured chances were high that at least one of you would appreciate that lol

[sweetandcool]

He seems to be kinda missing? I'm in the brainbomb/settling game with him and he wasn't very active the last few days, so probably some christmas stuff happening?

I don't like his 'first' post while game wasn't running but that's probably NAI since I think the role pms weren't out then?

He seems to have a strange obsession with you, Jamie, which is really odd. It reminds me more of his maf play than town play. Like right into the fray without any concerns about flavour and topic. If he is maf, I would lean more into 'he has learned and now tries to tie himself with other townies' so that would be a town lean for you Jamie. But I'm not sure, maybe just some silliness because of christmas booze?

Other than that he hasn't done anything. I guess we shouldn't forget his starting reaction.

I noticed there was no instruction to not post, so an insane and uncontrollable urge to troll came over me.

[Jamiet99uk]

If I understand the investigator mechanism correctly, I think the best way to use it is to have all of the VTs select the same player (player A), and the investigator select a different player (player B), so that a mafia report on player B means that player A and player B are both town or both mafia, and a town report on player B means that one of player A and B are mafia and the other is town.

I see your point, but there are two problems: how VTs agree on a player (a night vote might do, but it's a short time and people could miss sending the name) and we will only get info after investigator flips or disclose the info).

Would it necessarily hurt if the first person to post at night just throws out a name? Since this wouldnt be the name for the investigation itself, just the name for calibrating results?

I endorse this approach.

[sweetandcool]

Yeah, come to think about it, I really llike for sweet to tell us what he sees in Jamie right now.

I feel like it is self explanatory. Jamiet was laying down instructions for town as a way to score town points and try to position himself as town leader.

[Jamiet99uk]

Yeah, come to think about it, I really llike for sweet to tell us what he sees in Jamie right now.

I feel like it is self explanatory. Jamiet was laying down instructions for town as a way to score town points and try to position himself as town leader.

And you were endangering the Investigator.

Which is more scummy?

[sweetandcool]

Hate to rain on Monarch's parade, but if we use their method then there is one small problem:

Town votes for 1-4 Mafia, 7-10 town.

The 4 Mafia could all vote Mafia, making the final vote 5-8 Mafia and 7-11 town.

Consequently, it is possible that Mafia could guarantee an accurate result, which we would mistakenly believe to be inaccurate.

So while Monarch's plan is likely to work, it has a vulnerability that can possibly be exploited. And only Mafia would know whether it could be.

[bozotheclown]

Also, I meant to only have a small nap before the game so I would be there at start, didn't know that I would sleep over 10 hours. Guess my body needed the sleep.

I'm also very surprised to see quite a lot of policy discussion. I'm also surprised that ghug (who previously said those are typical what mafia defaults to in the joke phase) sees two of them as very towny.

I thought about the system myself a bit, but wouldn't the information, who thinks who is mafia for the vote, be useful? Like this policy that everyone chooses a certain individuum takes intention out of players hands and makes it easy to hide.

Also:



does ghug here buss sweet again?


@MadMonarch: Do you like your role PM? Are you happy about it? :)

@Bozo: who would you want to investigate right now with your system?

@Chaqa: where did you hide the joke phase?!?

I am not sure what information you are referring to, but we don't need the investigator mechanism to know who the VTs think are mafia, we can take a survey for that. The investigation result becomes much more useful if it is connected to one other player.

As for who the VTs should select, I think the second highest voted player is fine.

you didn't think of mafia trying to screw the system? It would be quite the information what mafia thinks (or at least portrays to think) who they think are mafia.

It's kinda like a second vote, a double VCA, if you want, which can be very helpful in the later stages

I assume you are saying that everyone should claim who they selected, forcing the mafia to fabricate selections and reasons for their selections, which I agree would have value. However, I still think that could be accomplished with a survey of everyone stating who they think is the most likely mafia, without giving up a very powerful investigative action.

[sweetandcool]

Yeah, come to think about it, I really llike for sweet to tell us what he sees in Jamie right now.

I feel like it is self explanatory. Jamiet was laying down instructions for town as a way to score town points and try to position himself as town leader.

And you were endangering the Investigator.

Which is more scummy?

I think your current behavior is more scummy. Aggressively scum reading all challengers is cringe.

[bozotheclown]

Hate to rain on Monarch's parade, but if we use their method then there is one small problem:

Town votes for 1-4 Mafia, 7-10 town.

The 4 Mafia could all vote Mafia, making the final vote 5-8 Mafia and 7-11 town.

Consequently, it is possible that Mafia could guarantee an accurate result, which we would mistakenly believe to be inaccurate.

So while Monarch's plan is likely to work, it has a vulnerability that can possibly be exploited. And only Mafia would know whether it could be.

Only VTs make a selection.

[Jamiet99uk]

I feel like it is self explanatory. Jamiet was laying down instructions for town as a way to score town points and try to position himself as town leader.

And you were endangering the Investigator.

Which is more scummy?

I think your current behavior is more scummy. Aggressively scum reading all challengers is cringe.

You do not deny that you endangered the investigator.

That is interesting.

[Jamiet99uk]

I feel like it is self explanatory. Jamiet was laying down instructions for town as a way to score town points and try to position himself as town leader.

And you were endangering the Investigator.

Which is more scummy?

I think your current behavior is more scummy. Aggressively scum reading all challengers is cringe.

Who exactly am I aggressively scumreading?

List them all, please.

[Jamiet99uk]

Hate to rain on Monarch's parade, but if we use their method then there is one small problem:

Town votes for 1-4 Mafia, 7-10 town.

The 4 Mafia could all vote Mafia, making the final vote 5-8 Mafia and 7-11 town.

Consequently, it is possible that Mafia could guarantee an accurate result, which we would mistakenly believe to be inaccurate.

So while Monarch's plan is likely to work, it has a vulnerability that can possibly be exploited. And only Mafia would know whether it could be.

Only VTs make a selection.

Bozo is right.

The Mafia can of course pretend-claim that they have made a selection, but they cannot manipulate the actual guesses inputted to the GM.

[ghug]

Also, I meant to only have a small nap before the game so I would be there at start, didn't know that I would sleep over 10 hours. Guess my body needed the sleep.

I'm also very surprised to see quite a lot of policy discussion. I'm also surprised that ghug (who previously said those are typical what mafia defaults to in the joke phase) sees two of them as very towny.

I thought about the system myself a bit, but wouldn't the information, who thinks who is mafia for the vote, be useful? Like this policy that everyone chooses a certain individuum takes intention out of players hands and makes it easy to hide.

Also:

What? This game is supposed to have plain flavour, right? (;

##VOTE sweet for cosplaying as a Brit again.

does ghug here buss sweet again?


@MadMonarch: Do you like your role PM? Are you happy about it? :)

@Bozo: who would you want to investigate right now with your system?

@Chaqa: where did you hide the joke phase?!?

Where did I say I saw them as townie?

[ghug]

The reasons I am not confident in the Bozo or Monarch plan are: a) it creates a false (mental) clear. The results of the plan give us good odds, but not really truth. b) We have traditionally had trouble getting everyone to take part. c) it is likely to increase laziness... in myself, admittedly.

However, if a survey begins that asks if we would take part, I am willing.

In other news
Kak's entry is different. Not AI. But he isn't reading as critically.

Wait, you don't like either?

[ghug]

I am not sure what information you are referring to, but we don't need the investigator mechanism to know who the VTs think are mafia, we can take a survey for that. The investigation result becomes much more useful if it is connected to one other player.

As for who the VTs should select, I think the second highest voted player is fine.

you didn't think of mafia trying to screw the system? It would be quite the information what mafia thinks (or at least portrays to think) who they think are mafia.

It's kinda like a second vote, a double VCA, if you want, which can be very helpful in the later stages

I agree with the general line of thinking here but I don't think it really matters whether town picks town or town picks mafia for the vote since there's only two kinds of scenarios from the investigation flip either way (and of sort of equal worth, in my opinion?)

Idk if there's really a way for mafia to screw the system since the results that come out of the flip are always be subject to inaccuracy but in a very measurable way

Imo your suggestion is valuable for getting to see whose name is in whose mouth but I disagree that there are system advantages/disadvantages in this discussion

In this early stage I think I still lean in favor of town just voting whoever had the 2nd highest votes that day, which i believe i saw suggested earlier

I suggested this because a) it's going to be a person for whom information is interesting and b) if we try to vote at night, someone isn't going to be able to check late enough and we'll fuck it up.

I also think we should not be discussing this all day (thanks Kak), so I'm going to put my bozo hat on and suggest a survey.

People who want to follow TheMadMonarch's plan where everyone chooses the person after them on the player list for investigation, guaranteeing we don't cross the 50% threshold:
[your name here]

People who want to follow ghug's plan of everyone choosing the second place votegetter D1, allowing a check between that person and the investigator's target of whether their alignments match:
ghug
[your name here]

People who want to follow [your plan here]:

I propose that once we have a majority we just pick one and go with it at least for one night so that we can focus on solving the game.

[ghug]

Well, I still don't like all this conformity. The last few games the big thing was that town was too apathetic and just followed, the one game where things got more shaken up and town nearly won was the one with the items which provided more personal information.

I feel letting everyone choose who they see as most likely mafia candidate at night will bring much needed information.

I mean, sure I can see the advantages of bozo's and monarch's suggestions, but they also might just lull town into a trance and provide mafia a hiding spot.

I still think there's value in having everyone share their most likely candidate but I dont think it needs to be tied to the investigation to be valuable

I think this makes things awkward for the investigator.

[Jamiet99uk]

If Sweet thinks I have done anything aggressive this game, he has led a very sheltered life.

[Jamiet99uk]

People who want to follow TheMadMonarch's plan where everyone chooses the person after them on the player list for investigation, guaranteeing we don't cross the 50% threshold:

- TheMadMonarch
- Jamiet99uk

[heartthrob24909]

People who want to follow ghug's plan of everyone choosing the second place votegetter D1, allowing a check between that person and the investigator's target of whether their alignments match:
ghug
Heartthrob

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug: What if there's a tie for second place?