M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[dargorygel]

neon refuses to answer the question

you refuse to acknowledge my point about wolfu

this irritates me

That's not a world view.

Give me a idea on what your mind is at with slots that aren't me and neon.

BesharamSabi - white knighting their new people again. seriously detracts from any attempt to read wolfu. too tired atm to say something smart but i feel like the repeated attempts to dismiss people questioning wolfu just looks bad but because it's sabi, who knows about alignment.
Bonatogether - me
bozotheclown - post one was surveying. he hasn't actually done anything not directly related to the survey, which i feel is not a great look.
bo_sox48 - i really liked his angle on wolfu. similar to pyxxy in that he came in late but put in a ton more effort and a ton more thought in a really nice way.
brainbomb - brainbombed. has wallposted and felt restrained and reasonable. i feel like this is town beancomb actively making an effort to not spam the thread and do things like that while still contributing. i like. insightful.
damo666 - liked the survey. not much else. rhk made a good post about him but he dismissed it by saying 'doesn't follow' and then only posting twice more in the thread.
dargorygel - claimed something. rip him. i strongly believe that he didn't say a specific role in the moment is a terrible look. i also cannot figure out what the crumb was supposed to be but i've also like never picked up on a pr soft ever. not sure what the play is wrt him - ask for a counterclaim seems an easy way to either make a one-for-one or confirm him, but the real one might not want to claim so idk. no real way to figure it out, as i see it.
DemonRHK - didn't really do a lot? rereading his d1, not sure what he thought. voted me when i said that most of the game was on vanity wagons - easy jump? nearly ended there but switched off onto worcej.
Hellenic Riot - felt fine/decent catchup post tonight. see ike
Princess Neon - hyper confident in whatever they're doing. ardently refuses to do anything she doesn't want to do (survey, answer my questions). claims scumgame and towngame are identical but has not provided evidence. notably playing differently from last game.
pyxxy - came in late, didn't really have opinions. see bo_sox
rdrivera2005 - did nothing really interesting except voting me (had a feeling)
Rumi Tobari - feels similar. i have no idea how they'd play scum so it's hard for me to make a distinction - admittedly no towny pureness like last game, but it's very hard to do that on game 2, so a topic of thought.
Tom Bombadil - lotta questions, not a lotta answers in the beginning, evens out. jumps onto worcej at eod from the remnants of the darg wagon, where he'd sat most of the day. doesn't look great
wolfu - can barely remember anything he posted aside from making a readslist, saying he had reasons, and then not posting them. apparently he had sixty posts???
CrimsonFox/Ike - ike has felt fine but it's easy to do that as any alignment when you have the benefit of being detached from any d1 posting. no idea. see HR

i should reread eod1 because i was gone for most of it playing eu4. thought i had more time, but just preliminary thoughts, no one really felt like a good vote. 24h d1s kinda suck. you could make a case that scum felt confident that they were chilling but i think there was a genuine 'where the fuck do i go' that most people felt, especially post-claim

Did you actually read what happened around my claim?

[dargorygel]

the atmosphere in this game is very uncomfortable, can people try to be respectful of one another, please

know the game is about lying and deception but we don't need to make it unbearable for others to play

thanks

[dargorygel]

SNIP



Why does it imply that? Why can't it be town vs town? How would it be different if it were Town vs Town than if it were Town vs Scum?

Look at the other wagons when I tied them vs Bona. They were stagnant nobody cared. When I tied Bona though not only was there a mass wave of unvotes but also quick movement onto Worcej that was not happening before. I expect that a town player would likely vote to untie the wagons but that much movement is much more indicative of TvS where as in TvT there's no need for that much movement from woofs because why would they care who goes over? The pure amount of movement is why I'm convinced Bona is woof.

His reaction to me and Sabi only enforces my belief especially his treatment of me, not because of omgus but because he's focusing on shading me for everything except my play. Neon is ego posting. Neon is refusing to give reads. Neon is an idiot. These are the implications without any actual insight into my content or what I'm trying to do.

Same with Sabi. Sabi is white knighting again...blah blah blah. None of this shade feels genuine or actually indicative of what is going on really.

I think you overlook the fact that *not* moving at an EoD when the lead wagon has claimed PR, particularly if you're someone who has been active in the thread already, is a diabolically bad look. So everyone present, barring any nutjob tunnellers, is probably going to change votes. Throw in the fact that ties are bad for town (and causing them is, again, a terrible look for scum too), and it becomes a fairly safe assumption that consolidation is going to happen.

Now the fact that Darg didn't change his vote from a vanity wagon post-claim (shite) and the fact it took until 3 minutes left for any consolidation whatsoever to happen is pretty concerning. But still, at the point of the vote you think 'triggered' the worcej rush, there were realistically only 3 options. There were 13 people who spoke votes in the last 12 minutes and thus were categorically present. There was, without any doubt, going to be some consolidation on 1 of the 3 as a result. Perhaps on 2 which could go head to head (though that exponentially increases the risk of a tie) - Which indeed does happen when it became Worcej vs Bona. The fact a load of them slid on one in the end... Is fine. It's what should have happened.

Now, if a load of those votes slid that way having previously had worcej as town (or Bona as scum), then you'd have a very good point... But from what I can tell, that's not the case with anyone.

---

So instead, you have to think about what the scum motivations are. If it's TvT, they're going to consolidate regardless to look townie. If it's TvS, they *might* protect their teammate, but unless bussing has gone massively out of fashion here since I last played, I wouldn't count on that either. They would *love* a tie to happen, but they would absolutely hate to be the one that causes it... So creating the recipe for a tie but having a townie be the fool that triggers it would be ideal. Hence why I find your throwing of so many different votes around to be deeply problematic. From this perspective, I also strongly dislike Brain, Wolf & Bo creating a third wagon in the final 2 minutes of the phase because that's another tie-creating mechanism - Though it's hard to see that being multiple scum members sliding in to save someone when worcej was town.

But how else can scum look townie? Well, by not being on a town wagon. So now out of those two votes that went onto rivera to create the last second wagon, wolfu's change from worcej to rivera (which was the one that turned brain's original vote into an actual third wagon, too) looks much worse than Bo (or brain). Suspicions deepen.

However, there's another mechanism by which scum can cause ties... Having lots of vanity wagons with people who aren't on any of the main wagons. So who was present at EoD but not on any of the relevant wagons? Sabi, Bona, and Darg all look pretty awful for that - All of whom would've had a perfect excuse to create confusion by actually making a relevant in the final minute should they have wanted to, because they were parked so far from the action might as well have been football fans at West Ham's stadium. All look bad for that, although Bona is a bit more swingy because his lack of care about being a wagon could be townie or it could be scum confident his team-mates would consolidate elsewhere. Darg frankly has no excuse whatsoever for not moving his vote after claiming, but luckily we don't have to give a damn about him until he survives a few days.

But going back to scum wanting to look good not being on a town wagon (which, let's be clear, nobody actually looks good or bad for - But it's a common scum misconception due to their altered point of view of the game)... There's one vote that really stands out. That would be Rumi putting worcej into the lead with a minute to go but then unvoting when worcej was guaranteed (barring literal last second switches that are highly suspicious as patent tie-creators) to die. An explanation for that reclusion would be really good, because frankly that looks fucking atrocious.

I can see that it would have been informatative post event, but why 'should' i have moved my vote?

[bozotheclown]

Mafia role predictions:
bozo: hooker, vengeful, day vig, universal backup
Rumi Tobari: hooker, day vig, universal backup, fake inventor
brainbomb: day vig, universal backup, strongman, tracker
worcej: hooker, day vig, universal backup, fake inventor
DemonRHK: day vig, universal backup, jailor, odd cop
dargorygel: day vig, universal backup, fake inventor, double vote
pyxxy: day vig, hooker, universal backup, tracker
damo: hooker, vengeful, day vig, tracker
Tom: hooker, vengeful, day vig, universal backup
rdrivera: hooker, day vig, universal backup, even cop
HR: hooker, day vig, odd cop, deathproof
BesharamSabi:
Bonatogether:
bo_sox:
RagingIke:
Princess Neon:
wolfu:

[dargorygel]

first time i've managed to irk multiple people on a site while using this playstyle. doesn't bode too well.


mind elaborating on this one for me?

If it helps Gira that like everyone hated me for my firsy three mu games because I refused to do read lists D1 because that's what I learned on here. Everyone here is stubborn in their own ways about how to play the game.

Gira


@Wolfu

Reggin?

Small world.

HR, does your past knowledge here alter your suspicions of wolfu? Or at least implied suspicions...

[dargorygel]

Also I'm doomscrolling news in my other monitor and was about to ping Tom to ask if he was actually Tom Bombadil based on seeing a news headline, but then I realized that's the character not the actor.

lol

[dargorygel]

Hooker, Odd Night Cop, Day Vig, Deathproof

Why deathproof? I think you're the only person (so far) to put that as something you think mafia would pick, so I'm curious about how you think it would be used, so that we can theoretically prepare for it.

Quite frankly I think it's the most powerful scum role there. The ability to waste an entire day is something that becomes exponentially more powerful the longer the game goes on, and the problem with confirmed scum is the loss of momentum that comes from their automatic daykill the next time around and the drop in town activity that associates that - A very frequent outcome of automatic votes on this site in the past, whether or not a hammer is dropped. While the Deathproof is alive, Dylo is basically a day earlier than it is otherwise because if there are 2 scum and 3 town alive, and the deathproof is one of them, any outcome other than a daykill on the OTHER scum is game over.

I had not considered deathproof that valuable in my list. I was thinking too short term.

[dargorygel]

I've seen an argument e.g. brainbomb on D1, Ike now on N1, for discounting bozo's survey by saying that it will be used to pin town as scum later on.

Counterpoint. What if you, as town, merely decide not to do that?

Y'all have free will. I think it's good to preempt that strategy so that scum don't get to push it for free with no pushback, but clearly we're all smart enough to want to look smart by posting "iT's A tRaP" about the survey. I bet we're also smart enough not to kill people over it later on.

In general I think it's pretty useful for getting an idea of what mafia likely picked and playing around those choices. Even if you personally don't find it useful, I bet someone else does.

Quite.

At what point, though does it become TOO much discussion about it? I like brain's new survey. Bozo's was fine, but brain's moves us forward.

[dargorygel]

I'll give my answer to the brainsurvey closer to EoN.
Later all

[brainbomb]

Scum survey top 4 (brain)

bosox - dayvig
tombomb - tracker
sabi - backup
bozo - strongman

[BesharamSabi]

Scum survey top 4 (brain)

bosox - dayvig
tombomb - tracker
sabi - backup
bozo - strongman

I already said what I would have wanted

[brainbomb]

okay well then replace you with wolfu as scum in that case

[brainbomb]

just realized I may hit 18,000 posts on this forum before game ends.

[bozotheclown]

I paid careful attention to the reaction of every wagon I tied. The movement when I put Bona into a position to go over was more active than any other wagon I tied during EOD

That could be explained by causing a tie so close to EOD, there was going to be an effort by town to break the tie.

[brainbomb]

demonRHK vote for worcej doesnt make any sense based on the ISO. rhk had spoken to worcej about how many it takes to maj hammer and then the next post is just a naked vote for worcej. no previous explanation as to any interest in voting there.

[brainbomb]

Demon,

You just wrote a paragraph on bozo and Sabi with exactly zero consclusions…

Do you have a read there or just writing to write?

If tom flips wolf then this looks alot like shading. so even though rhk vote on worcej is terrible, I think tom and rhk may not be a team

[brainbomb]

Aiight. Kinda like RHK response. Townlean

This backs off alot, and it doesnt make much sense to call out Scum!RHK and point out a flaw in his posts, only to change course and townread two posts later. this reads more like making sure you dont rouse too much suspicions.

[brainbomb]

I have caught up on the eight pages I was sleeping thru.

Hi catbae.

Bozo is still pouting over people not doing his poll. If bozo actually read my post I have hinted at what I would have wanted. Something something skill issue.

Neon Rumi worcejic brain seem towny

That's all I got. I'm still sick.

sabi is town. this doesnt look like a tmi read on worcej it looks like a typical smattering of vibes.

[brainbomb]

I think I just approached this wrong

who likes rings of power?
who likes house of the dragon?

im a fan of both.

If I didn't watch any of the GoT tv series and only read the first book would I enjoy Casa del Dragón?

Yea you dont need to watch original got or read the books to enjoy house o de dragon

[brainbomb]

brainbomb i see where you're coming from but this dude is just a townie

I think both Tom and Wolfu are town.

this has the potential to be one of the most unfortunate stances of the game.