MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

Wait, what?? You think that killing off active *town* (not just an active player in general, but an active town PR on your list of powerful roles) is better than killing a lurker? Ignoring the part where we then lose that PR, what does killing a townie tell us about their connections or about VCA?

Yeah. Most of the roles I said will only give us one good use (like doc, vigilante, or clairvoyant), are expendable (mason), or miss one scumteam entirely (cop, conspiracy theorist). I think it's fine trading that for good info.

This whole discussion is moot if the people on the block aren't one of those roles.

You think masons are expendable?!

They're all the same and if they aren't putting everything in their QT anyways in case something like this happens they're not helping.

[brainbomb]

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB ... 9#p62749

Further evidence im god awful as scum but yea here was a d1 bb scum elim

[brainbomb]

Yeah. Most of the roles I said will only give us one good use (like doc, vigilante, or clairvoyant), are expendable (mason), or miss one scumteam entirely (cop, conspiracy theorist). I think it's fine trading that for good info.

This whole discussion is moot if the people on the block aren't one of those roles.

You think masons are expendable?!

They're all the same and if they aren't putting everything in their QT anyways in case something like this happens they're not helping.

its three clears which can verify each other

[kgray]

Yeah. Most of the roles I said will only give us one good use (like doc, vigilante, or clairvoyant), are expendable (mason), or miss one scumteam entirely (cop, conspiracy theorist). I think it's fine trading that for good info.

This whole discussion is moot if the people on the block aren't one of those roles.

Please tell me what "good info" we will learn by flipping one of those town PRs you mentioned.

We gain more insight on a ton of interactions that they had today. Preferably we could get someone else who is scum or VT.

If we have one of the roles I mentioned on the block anyways, they should probably claim anyways.

What insight though. Just saying we get info in general isn't good enough. Tell me how we use a town flip to find scum.

[brainbomb]

theres only 21 players, 3 clears is 3 people who arent bad guys

[BunnyGo]

Yeah. Most of the roles I said will only give us one good use (like doc, vigilante, or clairvoyant), are expendable (mason), or miss one scumteam entirely (cop, conspiracy theorist). I think it's fine trading that for good info.

This whole discussion is moot if the people on the block aren't one of those roles.

Please tell me what "good info" we will learn by flipping one of those town PRs you mentioned.

We gain more insight on a ton of interactions that they had today. Preferably we could get someone else who is scum or VT.

If we have one of the roles I mentioned on the block anyways, they should probably claim anyways.

OK, let me take your statement as given: People with lots of interactions generate intelligence for us to hunt.

This was true last game for sure.

Question: Why not leave them alive to generate MORE interactions? It's hard for them to keep up the rate of content without giving stuff away. We can always go back and reread later.

[BunnyGo]

Grammar running away like filthy cash in Vegas, so I am off before I become next HB

Wait wait wait!

I want some fanfiction about this...

[brainbomb]

anyway this discussion tells me that bona is new and worth disregarding. thats all Ive taken from this

[BunnyGo]

Yeah. Most of the roles I said will only give us one good use (like doc, vigilante, or clairvoyant), are expendable (mason), or miss one scumteam entirely (cop, conspiracy theorist). I think it's fine trading that for good info.

This whole discussion is moot if the people on the block aren't one of those roles.

You think masons are expendable?!

They're all the same and if they aren't putting everything in their QT anyways in case something like this happens they're not helping.

You think that if we have 3 masons....that's 3 mech-clears! That all know each other. And have daychat and nightchat....

and they are expendable...

do you know how valuable a townclear that knows you are town too is?!

[kgray]

@bona, you're wrong. Sorry, but you're just wrong. I'm not saying we have to policy kill all lurkers, but intentionally keeping them around and killing someone active who is towny because it gives us more information somehow is absolutely not how we're playing this game.

[BunnyGo]

anyway this discussion tells me that bona is new and worth disregarding. thats all Ive taken from this

yeah....and young. Has to ubermensch the game. I hate heros.

[brainbomb]

anyway this discussion tells me that bona is new and worth disregarding. thats all Ive taken from this

yeah....and young. Has to ubermensch the game. I hate heros.

I like bona. but hes saying some ridiculous stuff

[Bonatogether]

But those lurkers won't be contributing, so your plan is just cutting off info that we could be getting from active players early. How is your suggestion better than getting rid of lurkers now, and keeping active people around so that we get more info from them as the game goes on?

I'm not saying we draw up a list of players now to dk, and I'm not saying "we can't kill lurkers until d4." However, I am saying that putting together dead active player's reads and such is way better than the same for someone who posted 20 messages a day.

Okay. And I'm saying it's easier to tell someone's alignment if they are active than if they are not. And if they're town and they're contributing, then we have extra help solving compared to a lurker who isn't really playing.

A lurker doesn't get us anything alive or dead. An active player gives info while they're alive. So for an extreme and poorly quantized example, say you have 2 lurkers and 2 active players, and the lurkers provide 0 info per day and the active players provide 5 info per day. We have to kill all 4 in the first 4 days.

If we kill the active players the first two days and then the two lurkers, then at the end of 4 days we have 15 infos.

If we kill the lurkers first and then the active players, then at the end of 4 days we have 35 infos.

So clearly we get more information by killing lurkers before active players.

But we're in a situation with 21 people all providing varying amounts of info, and some providing misinformation that might result in negative infos. You could extrapolate, but since we have many active players, we can afford to burn through a couple to info there.

[BunnyGo]

OK, new topic. I don't mean to pile on bona. He's allowed his opinions.

@kgray thoughts on a new topic?

[Bonatogether]

But those lurkers won't be contributing, so your plan is just cutting off info that we could be getting from active players early. How is your suggestion better than getting rid of lurkers now, and keeping active people around so that we get more info from them as the game goes on?

I'm not saying we draw up a list of players now to dk, and I'm not saying "we can't kill lurkers until d4." However, I am saying that putting together dead active player's reads and such is way better than the same for someone who posted 20 messages a day.

Bringing this back, you started this as a defense of Macca as a "lurker". They are the median poster last I checked. That qualifies as a DNK (do not kill) for you?

Like I said earlier, they have a reasonable post count but very few ideas or things that would relate their alignment to other people that we can use.

[kgray]

I'm not saying we draw up a list of players now to dk, and I'm not saying "we can't kill lurkers until d4." However, I am saying that putting together dead active player's reads and such is way better than the same for someone who posted 20 messages a day.

Okay. And I'm saying it's easier to tell someone's alignment if they are active than if they are not. And if they're town and they're contributing, then we have extra help solving compared to a lurker who isn't really playing.

A lurker doesn't get us anything alive or dead. An active player gives info while they're alive. So for an extreme and poorly quantized example, say you have 2 lurkers and 2 active players, and the lurkers provide 0 info per day and the active players provide 5 info per day. We have to kill all 4 in the first 4 days.

If we kill the active players the first two days and then the two lurkers, then at the end of 4 days we have 15 infos.

If we kill the lurkers first and then the active players, then at the end of 4 days we have 35 infos.

So clearly we get more information by killing lurkers before active players.

But we're in a situation with 21 people all providing varying amounts of info, and some providing misinformation that might result in negative infos. You could extrapolate, but since we have many active players, we can afford to burn through a couple to info there.

Not when they're strong townreads we can't.

[kgray]

OK, new topic. I don't mean to pile on bona. He's allowed his opinions.

@kgray thoughts on a new topic?

Uh. Why do you think ghug is town?

[BunnyGo]

If bona is scum, this is some of the most brilliant and daring scum play I've seen here.

[kgray]

I'm not saying we draw up a list of players now to dk, and I'm not saying "we can't kill lurkers until d4." However, I am saying that putting together dead active player's reads and such is way better than the same for someone who posted 20 messages a day.

Bringing this back, you started this as a defense of Macca as a "lurker". They are the median poster last I checked. That qualifies as a DNK (do not kill) for you?

Like I said earlier, they have a reasonable post count but very few ideas or things that would relate their alignment to other people that we can use.

Could say the same thing about you, my friend

[BunnyGo]

OK, new topic. I don't mean to pile on bona. He's allowed his opinions.

@kgray thoughts on a new topic?

Uh. Why do you think ghug is town?

He's not my strongest read anymore, but his early game seemed less on edge than last game. It seemed more carefree and silly.