MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

On d1 I actually do think it is better to vote brain than any of three I listed aside from maybe lfischl if he starts posting more. I prefer pressuring bunny or celaph, but if the choice is brain or ezio, I know what I'm choosing.

You barely even know me or my playstyle or meta. Nobody has this opinion of me. The only person who actually thinks like this is maybe flash. What are you basing this on? it just feels like you randomly decided based on one game that Im a great elim option

This is missing my point. You're not a good early dk target because of your playstyle last game - you're a good early dk target because you flipping gives us a lot of info on a lot of people. I'd put ghug, kgray, bunny, and maybe donny in this category, off the top of my head.

Yeah, no. We're not killing someone who's towny for "info" D1 (or ever, if I have my way).

[kgray]

That was the reason I voted him, nothing else. ##unvote.

Okay. When you realized Vecna was lying, why did you not reconsider your vote? Who do you find suspicious?

Macca, and I find it weird that bona keeps pushing brain for no real reason.

What is it about Macca you don't like?

Agreed on your bona point. Do you think bona is scummy for this, or just wrong?

[kgray]

this site fucks games up with overanalyzing meaningless datapoints from vca all the time. So whatever drives this bizarre devotion to think vca will give you all you need its not gonna work that way

I've never agreed with anything you've said more. In general, we're so bad at VCA.

[brainbomb]

I dont think bona is scum but he has some very bizarre notions about how we should be engineering wagons

[brainbomb]

this site fucks games up with overanalyzing meaningless datapoints from vca all the time. So whatever drives this bizarre devotion to think vca will give you all you need its not gonna work that way

I've never agreed with anything you've said more. In general, we're so bad at VCA.

ive watched so many games go downhill trying to chase deep bussers

[Bonatogether]

@bona, I think you should reconsider your lurker perspective. Usually lurkers aren't going to suddenly start talking and giving us "info" later, so keeping them around does nothing except for get rid of active players who are easier to read just by virtue of them contributing.

Which is why we should start policy killing them around d4 while we use previous day's info of dead active people to work out scum, imo.

But those lurkers won't be contributing, so your plan is just cutting off info that we could be getting from active players early. How is your suggestion better than getting rid of lurkers now, and keeping active people around so that we get more info from them as the game goes on?

I'm not saying we draw up a list of players now to dk, and I'm not saying "we can't kill lurkers until d4." However, I am saying that putting together dead active player's reads and such is way better than the same for someone who posted 20 messages a day.

[kgray]

I dont think bona is scum but he has some very bizarre notions about how we should be engineering wagons

I don't know if he's scum, but it sure will be convenient when he is and he can just hide all his votes behind "creating ties" and "generating info" lol

[brainbomb]

bona can you show evidence that eliminating me is useful day 1? Ive been eliminated d1 before and I dont even remember if a single maf actually voted me.

in fact mafia dont typically try to get me killed for whatever reason durga convinced people im trash and that maf just need me alive no matter what

[lfischl]

Okay. When you realized Vecna was lying, why did you not reconsider your vote? Who do you find suspicious?

Macca, and I find it weird that bona keeps pushing brain for no real reason.

What is it about Macca you don't like?

Agreed on your bona point. Do you think bona is scummy for this, or just wrong?

I think he could be either, but its more likely he's just wrong.

[e.m.c^42]

Update, haven't gotten past first two pages, brain has melted and words fancy incoherent.

[e.m.c^42]

Assuming discard claim is good, threw away town role since I was lazy but shan't say which, maybe some twerp will claim it later.

[Bonatogether]

Wait, what?? You think that killing off active *town* (not just an active player in general, but an active town PR on your list of powerful roles) is better than killing a lurker? Ignoring the part where we then lose that PR, what does killing a townie tell us about their connections or about VCA?

Yeah. Most of the roles I said will only give us one good use (like doc, vigilante, or clairvoyant), are expendable (mason), or miss one scumteam entirely (cop, conspiracy theorist). I think it's fine trading that for good info.

This whole discussion is moot if the people on the block aren't one of those roles.

Please tell me what "good info" we will learn by flipping one of those town PRs you mentioned.

We gain more insight on a ton of interactions that they had today. Preferably we could get someone else who is scum or VT.

If we have one of the roles I mentioned on the block anyways, they should probably claim anyways.

[BunnyGo]

it'd hurt, but I'd still be more in favor of it than a Macca, lfischl, or Ezio wagon

Wait, what?? You think that killing off active *town* (not just an active player in general, but an active town PR on your list of powerful roles) is better than killing a lurker? Ignoring the part where we then lose that PR, what does killing a townie tell us about their connections or about VCA?

Yeah. Most of the roles I said will only give us one good use (like doc, vigilante, or clairvoyant), are expendable (mason), or miss one scumteam entirely (cop, conspiracy theorist). I think it's fine trading that for good info.

This whole discussion is moot if the people on the block aren't one of those roles.

You think masons are expendable?!

[Bonatogether]

That was the reason I voted him, nothing else. ##unvote.

Okay. When you realized Vecna was lying, why did you not reconsider your vote? Who do you find suspicious?

Macca, and I find it weird that bona keeps pushing brain for no real reason.

I'm not pushing brain. I saying that voting active people is better in the early game.

[Bonatogether]

this site fucks games up with overanalyzing meaningless datapoints from vca all the time. So whatever drives this bizarre devotion to think vca will give you all you need its not gonna work that way

I can see this, but we need data at some point.

[e.m.c^42]

@jasnah @other mafia noobs but recognisable named from diplomacy, unfortunately EMC is disappointment so far, hopefully sleep improves this all.

[Bonatogether]

bona can you show evidence that eliminating me is useful day 1? Ive been eliminated d1 before and I dont even remember if a single maf actually voted me.

in fact mafia dont typically try to get me killed for whatever reason durga convinced people im trash and that maf just need me alive no matter what

Can you show me that I shouldn't? Why are you so squirmy about me voting you?

[kgray]

Which is why we should start policy killing them around d4 while we use previous day's info of dead active people to work out scum, imo.

But those lurkers won't be contributing, so your plan is just cutting off info that we could be getting from active players early. How is your suggestion better than getting rid of lurkers now, and keeping active people around so that we get more info from them as the game goes on?

I'm not saying we draw up a list of players now to dk, and I'm not saying "we can't kill lurkers until d4." However, I am saying that putting together dead active player's reads and such is way better than the same for someone who posted 20 messages a day.

Okay. And I'm saying it's easier to tell someone's alignment if they are active than if they are not. And if they're town and they're contributing, then we have extra help solving compared to a lurker who isn't really playing.

A lurker doesn't get us anything alive or dead. An active player gives info while they're alive. So for an extreme and poorly quantized example, say you have 2 lurkers and 2 active players, and the lurkers provide 0 info per day and the active players provide 5 info per day. We have to kill all 4 in the first 4 days.

If we kill the active players the first two days and then the two lurkers, then at the end of 4 days we have 15 infos.

If we kill the lurkers first and then the active players, then at the end of 4 days we have 35 infos.

So clearly we get more information by killing lurkers before active players.

[e.m.c^42]

Grammar running away like filthy cash in Vegas, so I am off before I become next HB

[BunnyGo]

Which is why we should start policy killing them around d4 while we use previous day's info of dead active people to work out scum, imo.

But those lurkers won't be contributing, so your plan is just cutting off info that we could be getting from active players early. How is your suggestion better than getting rid of lurkers now, and keeping active people around so that we get more info from them as the game goes on?

I'm not saying we draw up a list of players now to dk, and I'm not saying "we can't kill lurkers until d4." However, I am saying that putting together dead active player's reads and such is way better than the same for someone who posted 20 messages a day.

Bringing this back, you started this as a defense of Macca as a "lurker". They are the median poster last I checked. That qualifies as a DNK (do not kill) for you?