M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

The thing most troubling to me is how Jamie hasnt been in the spotlight or thrown a fit or called GM or anything this game. Every game I've played with Jamie, he's been the center of attention at some point on day 1. I like the change, but also... it's weird and I don't know how to feel about his play

I don't think there's anything off about Jamie so far. His fits are inconsistent and not as correlated with alignment as people think.

[foodcoats]

Do you think a team listed by town Bozo day 1 with little explanation is valuable to town? Like if Bozo flipped town, would you sheep his reads?
Also anyone that we flip will have votes on them, so you get that info from anyone voted out.

I do not townread Bozo, but I've seen town Bozo play like this and get miskilled so I'm NAI on him. I'd be fine with him being eliminated but I think there are better plays. I still think Celaph is acting unusual in his post style and inability to give a scumread. I'd prefer a worcej wagon over Bozo based on info gained too

How does worcej give info lol

Have you read his iso?

Worcej either votes or gives a read on:
Player (post#)
DL (157)
Jamie (159)
Damo (166)
Foodcoats(392)
Bosox (396)
Snowy (752)
Squigs (753)
Snowy again (762)

That's more interactions than Bozo

Fair points. None of it “stuck” when I read worcej’s iso so maybe it is a bias/cognitive error due to bozo’s very limited posts, making his reads look proportionally more strident.

So, worcej will give us some info too.

Danke

[BesharamSabi]

OK I suck at lylo/mylo math so someone please explain how many miskills can we have before we are fucked if there's 3 scum vs 4 scum? Would it be a bad idea to do a no kill for day one since honestly I can't think of one person that we could possible kill right now that would provide us with info. Please and thank you.

Also as a reminder my pronouns are they and them and not she/he/him/her.

3 miskills with 3 scum
2 miskills with 4 scum

No kill is bad for play and according to math

Also apologies if I ever mess up anyone's pronouns, I'm trying but I'm not perfect

So we are good if we miskill today but have to play it safe for the rest of the day kills.

Thank you for the explanation.

I hate Eden for not telling us the correct number of scum. What are we feeling number wise for how many scum Eden assigned? I think 4. Who knows how eden's brain works anyway.

Also you're good on pronouns. I just saw various people call me he and I was like well that's a first. I usually get she/her lol.

[snowy801]

Also Sabi I'm not much of a catboy just an aficionado

[ghug]

OK I suck at lylo/mylo math so someone please explain how many miskills can we have before we are fucked if there's 3 scum vs 4 scum? Would it be a bad idea to do a no kill for day one since honestly I can't think of one person that we could possible kill right now that would provide us with info. Please and thank you.

Also as a reminder my pronouns are they and them and not she/he/him/her.

3 miskills with 3 scum
2 miskills with 4 scum

No kill is bad for play and according to math

Also apologies if I ever mess up anyone's pronouns, I'm trying but I'm not perfect

So we are good if we miskill today but have to play it safe for the rest of the day kills.

Thank you for the explanation.

I hate Eden for not telling us the correct number of scum. What are we feeling number wise for how many scum Eden assigned? I think 4. Who knows how eden's brain works anyway.

Also you're good on pronouns. I just saw various people call me he and I was like well that's a first. I usually get she/her lol.

I bet it's 3. 4 would be pretty scumsided.

[ghug]

I finally have a scumread but I'd rather not kill celaph today.

[bo_sox48]

bobo do you think your suspicions of Squigs holds true on the assumption that Celaph isn't scum?

Yeah, he's scummy either way. If Celaph is town, dropping a vote on someone for dumb reasons that nobody will buy who you know won't fight back and force you to defend your shit play is smart. And why did he back off of Bona at the behest of other players?

I dont think my reasons for voting Celaph are any dumber than any other reason a wagon has formed today. Celaph has had 5 different people vote for them, so characterizing my push as one that is doomed to fail seems incorrect. Do you disagree with my assessment of Celaph hiding behind townreads and acting differently than his usual meta, or do you just think there are better cases out there, and if so, which ones?

I don't know Celaph's meta and generally think meta is overly subjective BS anyway, so I can't answer that piece. But I don't read his play as hiding behind townreads; I see it more as they are simply not very confident in scumreading people.

How do you currently feel about Celaph buddying you?

[bo_sox48]

Yeah, he's scummy either way. If Celaph is town, dropping a vote on someone for dumb reasons that nobody will buy who you know won't fight back and force you to defend your shit play is smart. And why did he back off of Bona at the behest of other players?

I dont think my reasons for voting Celaph are any dumber than any other reason a wagon has formed today. Celaph has had 5 different people vote for them, so characterizing my push as one that is doomed to fail seems incorrect. Do you disagree with my assessment of Celaph hiding behind townreads and acting differently than his usual meta, or do you just think there are better cases out there, and if so, which ones?

I don't know Celaph's meta and generally think meta is overly subjective BS anyway, so I can't answer that piece. But I don't read his play as hiding behind townreads; I see it more as they are simply not very confident in scumreading people.

How do you currently feel about Celaph buddying you?

Moreover, I don't feel like you have shown strong conviction in your own read of Celaph, which bothers me more than the merit or lack thereof in your case.

[foodcoats]

Your reading comprehension needs work.

"I don’t see how either of those are informative flips"

Start there.

Ahhh you’re a detail person

How is it “interesting” then

I don't know how responding in kind to an utterly stupid question that you could have answered yourself by actually reading the post you quoted makes me a "detail person" but I appreciate the attempt to place the blame for the tone of this exchange on me.

I have little read on worcej or even memory of him playing other than buddying me. Thus, if a wagon against him develops, I would be interested in its progression and perhaps interested in joining it if the case for him as scum is strong enough because late day wagons tend to be informative when they are based in reality. On the other hand, the late day wagon against bozo was based on three people saying that he "feels off" to them and, given the low odds of the entire scumteam deciding to pile on a lurker for subjective bullshit at about the same time, that provides us nothing.

Well I just mean the interesting things in mafia are information. I guess the drama and flaming are also interesting, but not game related. So for my brain I didn’t contradict or misread you… saying you’re interested in worcej wagon means it will provide interesting information. Nothing else would really make sense to my mind.

I take your point to mean pressuring worcej will create information, whereas pressuring bozo will not. Do you think bozo is low hanging fruit? Do you think he’ he’s in danger of being killed with no competition?

[BesharamSabi]

Why do you keep thinking Squigs is bussing celaph?

Squigs' main target today has been Bona. Yet he backed off Bona on page 26:

Ask me why I think you are scum and try to convince me that that reasoning is wrong.

Instead you tried convincing the other 11 or however many people in the game that I'm full of crap and my opinions can't be trusted. Town try to work together and correct incorrect lines of reasoning. Or at least they should.

I think my initial goal of voting you for pressure has accomplished its goal in getting conversations going and jumpstarting us out of the day 1 random question phase so I'll stand by that vote.

As for my thoughts on Bona now, I certainly haven't seen anything that convinces me Bona is town, but with input from Ghug and Sabi I might have to accept that my feelings towards Bona are mostly NAI and I'm gonna have to start looking at other players as well to get a better picture

It's worth noting that he made an actual case against Bona, one that was worth considering. How was that just a boring pressure vote? Why did he back off of it, and why did he credit you and ghug for convincing him to do so?

His next move is to jump to celaph:

So I liked Celaphs vibes early on, but since page 13 Celaph has made 7 posts:
1 question to me
4 posts defending/agreeing with me
1 posts giving the quote I asked for
1 post saying good job DL

I can't help but shake the feeling Celaph is trying to buddy me after my post saying I liked em.

He did, in fact, townread celaph early. So this post makes sense. Six minutes later, without Celaph posting again, he votes for Celaph:

Yeah I don't want to be pocketed by Celaph

##vote Celaph

I have done this a number of times as scum when I think "hmmm, maybe I should bus a teammate, but not that hard" and then realize that it's too obvious if I don't actually put a little heat on him. That's how this feels to me.

This is his first question to Celaph awhile after voting him:

@Celaph whenever they're back:

You have primarily given town reads and defended people. You haven't really given any reasons why anyone could be scum.

Why is this?

Does this seem like hardball to you? It's shit. He puts "pressure" on Celaph by voting for him and then leaves him a first grade level question to bail himself out of it.

Later:

Okay so I also went and reread (skimmed) Celaphs last game (well day 1), when they were a town cop. Celaph does townread people and defend people day 1, but they also place several votes and develop scumreads. Their tone is also different, that Celaph shared a lot more original insights rather than this Celaph who either says "I agree" or asks "Why do you think this?". Most notably Celaphs post count and average length of posts is much lower this game.

I'm gonna stick to my Celaph vote since I don't see any wagon that compels me more at the moment

More shit that he knows isn't going to stick with anyone else. He dropped his vote on a teammate on day 1 knowing it wasn't going to spur anyone else into wagoning him.

Since some people don't know what a scumread is, ##VOTE Squigs

Thank you Bo for the response, this helps me figure out how your mind is processing this game.

Why did he back off of it, and why did he credit you and ghug for convincing him to do so?

This was in regards to the Bona thing. Squigs was basically alluding that Bona was coming off as reactionary in their interactions. I had chimed in that Bona is always reactionary, regardless if he's playing mafia or not, because he's a young teen and that's their baseline personality is like.

I do find the fact he tried to do a pressure vote on Bona like less than 12 hours into day 1 a bit weird tho.

But yea back to the Squigs vs Celaph stuff:

I do agree that his follow up question to celaph post voting for him is as soft as my questions have been. I think Squigs should expand on this celaph voting thing.

Also I have question for others that also had votes for celaph, why.

[foodcoats]

I finally have a scumread but I'd rather not kill celaph today.

Why do you scumread celaph?

[snowy801]

Soliciting opinions on death the llama

[BesharamSabi]

How does worcej give info lol

Have you read his iso?

Worcej either votes or gives a read on:
Player (post#)
DL (157)
Jamie (159)
Damo (166)
Foodcoats(392)
Bosox (396)
Snowy (752)
Squigs (753)
Snowy again (762)

That's more interactions than Bozo

Fair points. None of it “stuck” when I read worcej’s iso so maybe it is a bias/cognitive error due to bozo’s very limited posts, making his reads look proportionally more strident.

So, worcej will give us some info too.

Danke

Maybe it didn't stuck with me when I reread worcej post was that a lot of it was surrounded by shit post about fucking sports, weird messages about our last game together, and joke votes.

I do agree that Worcej would provide us more info than say bozo. I just wished bozo would stop with the one liner post.

Ghug why did you call me the new bozo when I clearly don't do one liner posts?

[BesharamSabi]

Me: *send snowy a a few questions asking why on his reread of ghug he got scum vibes from me and to expand on his thoughts about it. Ended the message calling him a cat boy*

Snowy only response:

Also Sabi I'm not much of a catboy just an aficionado

Ugggggh snowy why are you so difficult???

[Squigs44]

Yeah, he's scummy either way. If Celaph is town, dropping a vote on someone for dumb reasons that nobody will buy who you know won't fight back and force you to defend your shit play is smart. And why did he back off of Bona at the behest of other players?

I dont think my reasons for voting Celaph are any dumber than any other reason a wagon has formed today. Celaph has had 5 different people vote for them, so characterizing my push as one that is doomed to fail seems incorrect. Do you disagree with my assessment of Celaph hiding behind townreads and acting differently than his usual meta, or do you just think there are better cases out there, and if so, which ones?

I don't know Celaph's meta and generally think meta is overly subjective BS anyway, so I can't answer that piece. But I don't read his play as hiding behind townreads; I see it more as they are simply not very confident in scumreading people.

How do you currently feel about Celaph buddying you?

At this point I don't think Celaph is buddying me (or targeting me specifically), so much as trying not to make waves with anyone

[foodcoats]

Worcej either votes or gives a read on:
Player (post#)
DL (157)
Jamie (159)
Damo (166)
Foodcoats(392)
Bosox (396)
Snowy (752)
Squigs (753)
Snowy again (762)

That's more interactions than Bozo

Fair points. None of it “stuck” when I read worcej’s iso so maybe it is a bias/cognitive error due to bozo’s very limited posts, making his reads look proportionally more strident.

So, worcej will give us some info too.

Danke

Maybe it didn't stuck with me when I reread worcej post was that a lot of it was surrounded by shit post about fucking sports, weird messages about our last game together, and joke votes.

I do agree that Worcej would provide us more info than say bozo. I just wished bozo would stop with the one liner post.

Ghug why did you call me the new bozo when I clearly don't do one liner posts?

Hmmm

Thinking about it I think a worcej WAGON gives more info than worcej’s flip; bozo is the inverse

Anyhoo

Worcej could be scum, he looks blendy, but I’m inclined to give him a pass for now….. ehhhhh

[foodcoats]

Soliciting opinions on death the llama

I went back thinking llama looked blendy but there’s definitely some juice in there

“Not killing today” is my humble opinion

[Jamiet99uk]

Worcej either votes or gives a read on:
Player (post#)
DL (157)
Jamie (159)
Damo (166)
Foodcoats(392)
Bosox (396)
Snowy (752)
Squigs (753)
Snowy again (762)

That's more interactions than Bozo

Fair points. None of it “stuck” when I read worcej’s iso so maybe it is a bias/cognitive error due to bozo’s very limited posts, making his reads look proportionally more strident.

So, worcej will give us some info too.

Danke

Maybe it didn't stuck with me when I reread worcej post was that a lot of it was surrounded by shit post about fucking sports, weird messages about our last game together, and joke votes.

I do agree that Worcej would provide us more info than say bozo. I just wished bozo would stop with the one liner post.

Ghug why did you call me the new bozo when I clearly don't do one liner posts?

You were showing signs of behaving like the grand old Bozo we knew, back in the old country, when the forum was not like it is today. Way back in the days of old, when all was darkness and light, all things of this world were merely patterns of thought in the mind of Bozotheclown.

Sadly that Bozo is not in this game.

[bozotheclown]

I am not going to be available the rest of the day until close to EOD. I have had very little time to look at the game so far, but in my defense I did not expect the game to start until tonight. I will have more time to participate if I make it to D2.

celaph or damo would be my choice for the DK today, but I am not "tunneling" them as foodcoats suggests, after all, it is only D1, and I have spent very little time looking at the game. I just see less town motivation in their posts that others.

After the last game I was in, I was glad to draw town this game, so I hope I am not eliminated today for lack of participation. If that happens, just remember that I was an easy vote for the mafia.

[Squigs44]

I dont think my reasons for voting Celaph are any dumber than any other reason a wagon has formed today. Celaph has had 5 different people vote for them, so characterizing my push as one that is doomed to fail seems incorrect. Do you disagree with my assessment of Celaph hiding behind townreads and acting differently than his usual meta, or do you just think there are better cases out there, and if so, which ones?

I don't know Celaph's meta and generally think meta is overly subjective BS anyway, so I can't answer that piece. But I don't read his play as hiding behind townreads; I see it more as they are simply not very confident in scumreading people.

How do you currently feel about Celaph buddying you?

Moreover, I don't feel like you have shown strong conviction in your own read of Celaph, which bothers me more than the merit or lack thereof in your case.

Tbh this day 1 has produced some of the weakest scumreads I've ever seen. No one is obvscumming and there's no big fight that causes people to pick sides. I don't think anyone has conviction in their reads