M1027: Community - Game Thread

[Hamilton Brian]

As a persona, assume MadMonarch is town. Could they so easily drop the vote on anyone, anyone at all, and just walk away? I get the particular challenges that the time zones can exert. Posting that day consists of agreeing with bozo's mech idea, some brief interlude with Kak, but then votes Kak due to the questioning of the town positions which Kak called "conformity." And mech, mech, mechs.

Vs

assume MM is mafia. I was going to call it haphazard but it wasn't...but the vote on anyone can be argued away as simple time zones, sleep, etc. However, isn't it convenient that the drop on Kak ultimately manifested in heavily tied wagons at EOD.

Not sure where I am going there with all of that, but it seems suspect to me.

As a start.

[dargorygel]

@ham
What is your view of buddying as a tactic? If you were scum, might you buddy? Why or why not? And HOW would you buddy?

[heartthrob24909]

No argument on effort - I am not putting much in atm.

I always suspect you because I respect you. I believe you can easily open wolf better than anyone here and get away with it.

Do you think that I am doing that currently?

I think you could be. But it would require me to be more interested in really digging for it, but I’m not. I’ll care more when I feel I need to, but D1 really killed my interest in this game.

"D1 really killed my interest in this game."
Why?

[Jamiet99uk]

I've been trying to reconcile: Monarch and Bozo's work on a system to aid the investigator (they did come up with systems... and those systems could have hurt scum's chances by aiding the investigator) with the things that seem scummy about them (Monarch not carefully reading... bozo has less scummy things, but does not do much bozo things. He grilled/drilled one person, but usually we see more of that iirc.).

Bozo has interrogated Hamilton and Sweetandcool. That's two persons.

[dargorygel]

I've been trying to reconcile: Monarch and Bozo's work on a system to aid the investigator (they did come up with systems... and those systems could have hurt scum's chances by aiding the investigator) with the things that seem scummy about them (Monarch not carefully reading... bozo has less scummy things, but does not do much bozo things. He grilled/drilled one person, but usually we see more of that iirc.).

Bozo has interrogated Hamilton and Sweetandcool. That's two persons.

Correct.

[bozotheclown]

It really does look that way. How unfortunate if you believe that though.

We do not want two MK in a row, this is just Will being Will.

Either way, Just's point is valid.

I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone, this makes absolutely no sense.

I'll spell it out for you, but I really am getting tired of explaining obvious things.

1. damo strongly suggests we don't DK him, that it is a big mistake.

Practically anyone is going to take that as him sitting the investigator role.
If he really is investigator this is incredibly bad play, particularly because he was far from guaranteed to be the DK (but yes, under some pressure).

Consequently we must conclude one of three things (for Mafia only two).

A. Damo pulled a worcej and PR claimed under some pressure.
B. Damo is bluffing in an attempt to eat a NK.
C. Damo is Mafia trying to forestall his demise.

I would expect Mafia to conclude B because A is unlikely and it is so damo-like. It is incredibly interesting that Mafia was naive enough to conclude A (or at least treat it as enough of a possibility that it would be worth a NK).

It is more tricky for town because we were stuck trying to decide between B or C.

If damo had come under pressure D2 (if he is investigator then why is he not the NK?), I would have tried to ensure his survival another day. This would have ensured that if he was town that Mafia would feel pressure to NK him N2 or in the case he was Mafia we would have felt comfortable voting him D3.

So yeah, damo was obviously not the investigator.

The problem with this is that it is not what you said at the beginning of the day:

Damo eating the night kill was extremely obvious. I'm shocked the investigator wasted on him. Guess they wanted to verify darg immediately?

Glad to see my instincts have been 100% so far (that I know of).

How do you reconcile damo being the obvious NK with him obviously not being the investigator?

[bozotheclown]

I really wish bunny was in this game, he would understand.

Have you read his notes in the godthread for other Mafia games? He frequently reads people's alignment, ignoring the fact as Mafia or spectator he would know it.

I am baffled so many people on this website think it is impossible to make alignment reads as Mafia.

It is impossible to make genuine ones because as Mafia you already know the fucking answer.

Making a "read" involves deduction. It is not possible to deduce an answer you were handed in writing at the outset of the game!

This is a valid point to make, and one I agree with, but I can't get behind it being justification for voting for Sweet right now in this game

It is the same reason I voted for him last game.

[bozotheclown]

Do the people voting sweet right now really think he'd be bold enough to draw attention to his having read into the softing that got damo killed?

Why not?

[sweetandcool]

It is impossible to make genuine ones because as Mafia you already know the fucking answer.

Making a "read" involves deduction. It is not possible to deduce an answer you were handed in writing at the outset of the game!

This is a valid point to make, and one I agree with, but I can't get behind it being justification for voting for Sweet right now in this game

It is the same reason I voted for him last game.

Then vote me every game because it is literally never changing.

This is like voting me for my username, the most moronic way to play.

[sweetandcool]

Either way, Just's point is valid.

I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone, this makes absolutely no sense.

I'll spell it out for you, but I really am getting tired of explaining obvious things.

1. damo strongly suggests we don't DK him, that it is a big mistake.

Practically anyone is going to take that as him sitting the investigator role.
If he really is investigator this is incredibly bad play, particularly because he was far from guaranteed to be the DK (but yes, under some pressure).

Consequently we must conclude one of three things (for Mafia only two).

A. Damo pulled a worcej and PR claimed under some pressure.
B. Damo is bluffing in an attempt to eat a NK.
C. Damo is Mafia trying to forestall his demise.

I would expect Mafia to conclude B because A is unlikely and it is so damo-like. It is incredibly interesting that Mafia was naive enough to conclude A (or at least treat it as enough of a possibility that it would be worth a NK).

It is more tricky for town because we were stuck trying to decide between B or C.

If damo had come under pressure D2 (if he is investigator then why is he not the NK?), I would have tried to ensure his survival another day. This would have ensured that if he was town that Mafia would feel pressure to NK him N2 or in the case he was Mafia we would have felt comfortable voting him D3.

So yeah, damo was obviously not the investigator.

The problem with this is that it is not what you said at the beginning of the day:

Damo eating the night kill was extremely obvious. I'm shocked the investigator wasted on him. Guess they wanted to verify darg immediately?

Glad to see my instincts have been 100% so far (that I know of).

How do you reconcile damo being the obvious NK with him obviously not being the investigator?

It was obvious he was attempting to eat the NK. While I would expect Mafia to see through that, it still put him in much greater danger of being the NK than any other player. Consequently investigating damo is a 0 IQ play.

[bozotheclown]

What's your metric for super towny?

He has been asking insightful questions and pursuing an investigatory approach. Nobody appears to be working harder to solve the game, than Bozo.

There is nothing scummy about him.

Oh, you did.

I agree with your conclusion.

The pocketing potential in this has me concerned.

[Jamiet99uk]

I've been trying to reconcile: Monarch and Bozo's work on a system to aid the investigator (they did come up with systems... and those systems could have hurt scum's chances by aiding the investigator) with the things that seem scummy about them (Monarch not carefully reading... bozo has less scummy things, but does not do much bozo things. He grilled/drilled one person, but usually we see more of that iirc.).

Bozo has interrogated Hamilton and Sweetandcool. That's two persons.

Correct.

Thank you for acknowledging that you were incorrect.

[bozotheclown]

I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone, this makes absolutely no sense.

I'll spell it out for you, but I really am getting tired of explaining obvious things.

1. damo strongly suggests we don't DK him, that it is a big mistake.

Practically anyone is going to take that as him sitting the investigator role.
If he really is investigator this is incredibly bad play, particularly because he was far from guaranteed to be the DK (but yes, under some pressure).

Consequently we must conclude one of three things (for Mafia only two).

A. Damo pulled a worcej and PR claimed under some pressure.
B. Damo is bluffing in an attempt to eat a NK.
C. Damo is Mafia trying to forestall his demise.

I would expect Mafia to conclude B because A is unlikely and it is so damo-like. It is incredibly interesting that Mafia was naive enough to conclude A (or at least treat it as enough of a possibility that it would be worth a NK).

It is more tricky for town because we were stuck trying to decide between B or C.

If damo had come under pressure D2 (if he is investigator then why is he not the NK?), I would have tried to ensure his survival another day. This would have ensured that if he was town that Mafia would feel pressure to NK him N2 or in the case he was Mafia we would have felt comfortable voting him D3.

So yeah, damo was obviously not the investigator.

The problem with this is that it is not what you said at the beginning of the day:

Damo eating the night kill was extremely obvious. I'm shocked the investigator wasted on him. Guess they wanted to verify darg immediately?

Glad to see my instincts have been 100% so far (that I know of).

How do you reconcile damo being the obvious NK with him obviously not being the investigator?

It was obvious he was attempting to eat the NK. While I would expect Mafia to see through that, it still put him in much greater danger of being the NK than any other player. Consequently investigating damo is a 0 IQ play.

It still seems to me that your original post did not give enough consideration that the investigator was concerned about C, which makes me think you knew all along that damo was town.

[ghug]

Worked pretty well though, so 4D chess is clearly your specialty.

I'm so smart that even my mistakes are carefully executed strokes of genius.
-sweet, probably

Ego check time

##vote ghug

[ghug]

Is this one of those things you say in jest just to retract it later?

Who would you like to start with?

But in all seriousness, I think we need to open the books on MadMonarch, worcej, Chaqa. Will and Heart too.

So everyone but Jamie then? Any further preference? Can you open the book or are you expecting others to?

[bozotheclown]

so you were suspicious of damo only because he had low posts?

Or which post exactly was so towny you decided not wanting to vote him anymore?

My primary suspicion was that he didn't post. Sus or not, lurking isn't helpful. None of his posts since then are particularly exculpatory, but he's at least here. I do put without into the argument that he never posted but had reads on everyone. And started posting more only when called out. So, still suspicious on my mind. But I'm willing to move my vote if I find a more solid reason

I think voting damo for low posting is just about the worst idea.

In fact, damo is making more of an impression D1 than he normally does. He tends to be more impactive D2 or D3. Give him time to warm up.

Hmph, I don't like what I'm seeing. I think either Kak or Darg should be the DK, mainly because they are lead wagons and I'm not townreading them.

that's kinda cold, sweet.

Who's your biggest maf-read right now? And why?

Nobody, maybe damo.

Do have a few reasonably strong town reads. But none are in the chopping block.

Why did you argue against a damo DK then 2 minutes later say he was your only scum read?

[rdrivera2005]

Why aren't we looking more at the pool of Kak voters?

Why should we look more on the pool of Kak voters?

[Chaqa]

It's not the same. You can enjoy reading the book again, but you still know the outcome the second time.

Unless you are trying to claim your memory is so bad that you forgot your team mates the second you look away from reading the PM?

When I'm Mafia I try not to look at it until halfway through D1.

Oh god, it's Chaqa.

I still haven't looked at my role PM.

I did have it read to me, though.

[bozotheclown]

I really, really, really hate the darg wagon!

Can you explain why you felt this way at the time you made the post?

[sweetandcool]

My primary suspicion was that he didn't post. Sus or not, lurking isn't helpful. None of his posts since then are particularly exculpatory, but he's at least here. I do put without into the argument that he never posted but had reads on everyone. And started posting more only when called out. So, still suspicious on my mind. But I'm willing to move my vote if I find a more solid reason

I think voting damo for low posting is just about the worst idea.

In fact, damo is making more of an impression D1 than he normally does. He tends to be more impactive D2 or D3. Give him time to warm up.

that's kinda cold, sweet.

Who's your biggest maf-read right now? And why?

Nobody, maybe damo.

Do have a few reasonably strong town reads. But none are in the chopping block.

Why did you argue against a damo DK then 2 minutes later say he was your only scum read?

Obviously I already had reasoned that damo was either trying to eat the NK or was Mafia.

The right play was to preserve him D1 and probably D2, to put pressure on Mafia to NK him. If he wasn't the NK on N1 or N2 then he either would have been Mafia or we would have been outplayed by Mafia.

Separate from that is the fact that voting damo for low activity D1 is smoothbrain. It's bad regardless of his alignment.

I thought he was more likely Mafia and consequently scumleaned him. And if he actually somehow was investigator, then suspecting him without voting him would provide some small protection for him.