Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[brainbomb]

you seem ridiculous right now

mmmmmhm
i am
did you like my jamie impression?

yes i do

[Vecna]

Current thoughts:

I don't mind the jamie wagon. While Jamie's snarky summary of the wagon makes it seem bad, Maniac and others have interesting reasons.

I don't like the Chaqa wagon. I think Vecna's reasons are bad. I think the members of the wagon are sketchy. I think the timing and manner of its formulation is sketchy.

I like the Bona wagon (obv, I'm on it). I still think Bona had a lot of posts that were "too sketchy to be sketchy" by just spewing statements and then contradicting them about 10 minutes later for no reason. His high school chummy drama seemed like a way to post a lot without doing anything.

I am worried that when lfischl took early pressure (I didn't understand why, but I didn't understand why Durga got a lot of pressure in the mini game) that Vecna jumped in to change the topic. Vecna did the same for some other wagons. I'm not sure who he's saving like he did Durga, but it seems very similar to last game. His posts seem forced like they did last game too, as the GM I thought on D1 "oh man, when Durga flips it'll be obvious how Vecna was defending her". Gonna ##vote Vecna

Who have I tried to defend here?

What topic of discussion have I tried to stop?

You didn't defend Durga last game, you just steered the conversation. It was masterful. The same way you haven't defended ANYONE. But you've steered the conversation. It's well done. And now you OMGUS me? After saying I'm scummy and then not saying I'm scummy and then I'm scummy again? It's like you're looking for something to stick and get your feet under you.

I literally came out and told people not to kill Durga D1. Repeatedly. I engaged people on saying it was a bad idea. People asked me why I said it and I gave reasons, citing her general competence meant she was a bad D1 kill.

I have not steered any conversation here. Im acknowledging people's concerns about Jamiet but im not engaging it because im lacking a strong opinion myself.

Youre doing a complete 180 on both situations to try and fit your agenda.

[Vecna]

Also, are you somehow under the illusion I ever do not have my feet under me?

You just showed me a certain behavior and mindset that I recognized in M61 as well. Here youre doing it extremely early for whatever reason, and that is not something Town you ever does.

Youre not even looking at whether I have reasons to do the things I do as town.

[BunnyGo]

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=61&user=BunnyGo

Bunny iso from M61.

Scan his later days. See how he defends and incriminates certain players.

Compare it to his recent big posts. Let me know what you think how that reflects to his usual town D1.

My itnerpretation: He came out guns blazing really quickly because:

a: Either im too dangerously close to his teammates and he feel he has to interfere already for some reason
b: or im ignoring Jamiets wagon (jamiet being scum) and attacking town Chaqa, and he sees a nice opportunity to make me look bad.

Honest question: What do you see is "guns blazing" with probing someone? Was I "guns blazing" on my vote on Bona? Are you "guns blazing" with your 4 votes and subsequent pushes? I honestly can't tell what you're thinking.

My usual D1 town is an ass. It's loud, and it's purpose is to get lots of reactions and data for later. I told ghug while GMing that I was tired of it and wanted to try and sit back and read more and let people be. So I'm trying it.

[Vecna]

Youre so lucky I do not have a gun or a goo-goo beam

[BunnyGo]

Vote hopping? I set up my second partner as the counter-wagon to make either of my teammates that would survive look very good.

The only reason I switched was because Kgray put up a counter-wagon that was conveniently already in my scumreads and I felt I could let her take more of the blame for that later on.

Both wagons had already stuck and had plenty of support amongst people. And what did I deflect on exactly? I claimed my reasons for my actions clearly.

Your characterization is not very sharp Bunny. You saying youre suspicious of me based on a potential town-flip of lfischl is also weak. How about you take a stance on his alignment yourself? As a GM, what did you notice of lfischl's play compared to this game?

And trying to say I play as town looking for what will stick? Yeah, im sure you'll get a lot of people to agree with that.

I noticed lfischl's play was not political. Meaning that while he was thinking and hunting in his own way, he didn't explain or lobby in any way to help explain himself and get people to agree with him. It's something that's been lacking in my town game too.

I'm saying that your play D1 is very similar. It's concerning. And your push on Chaqa was lame.

How is my push on Chaqa lame? How can you excuse what he's trying to do yet again?

I don't excuse it. I think Chaqa's "Ubermensch" plays of "I'm gonna WIN for everyone or BLOW SHIT UP" is anti-town. But he's gonna keep doing it. We've all tried at some point to stop it. So I'm more resigned to see where it goes, and then play. I don't see the point in killing him D1 just because he's doing something annoyingly dumb.

[e.m.c^42]

@Vecna you never answered what the EMC test for damo was. Also, does damo know about the test?

This is sort of ew, since you aren't Chaqa and I am certain I did explain this already in detail in past games. Or more of, we've had this exact same conversation before.

[BunnyGo]

Also, are you somehow under the illusion I ever do not have my feet under me?

You just showed me a certain behavior and mindset that I recognized in M61 as well. Here youre doing it extremely early for whatever reason, and that is not something Town you ever does.

Youre not even looking at whether I have reasons to do the things I do as town.

It's true, I don't have a strong read on town!Vecna vs scum!Vecna. Last game I spent a while trying to get into your head as you played. I have less experience getting in town!Vecna's head. But if you're town here, then your games are very similar from my POV.

[Vecna]

For the people that were scum with bunny in that game where Chaqa and KGray were death-tunneling eachother (or were just playing that game in general).

Compare how he's trying to undermine me here to when he was trying to undermine my unbreakable townread of Dargorygel.

It is the exact same reasoning patterns. The same level of blind determinism without any reasoning or sense behind it.

Town bunny does not do those things. He just sits on the sidelines and asks questions. Pretty meek ones under the radar on D1 usually too.

It's day 1...vs KiLo. And I'm trying to not be a loud asshole on day 1 to get reads like I have been the last few games. It's not fun. Are you that offended I'm pushing you for playing identically to the mini game?

Not offended, excited. I think you overplayed your hand and got it stuck in the jar.

[BunnyGo]

@Vecna you never answered what the EMC test for damo was. Also, does damo know about the test?

This is sort of ew, since you aren't Chaqa and I am certain I did explain this already in detail in past games. Or more of, we've had this exact same conversation before.

We probably have, but I didn't remember the details.

[BunnyGo]

For the people that were scum with bunny in that game where Chaqa and KGray were death-tunneling eachother (or were just playing that game in general).

Compare how he's trying to undermine me here to when he was trying to undermine my unbreakable townread of Dargorygel.

It is the exact same reasoning patterns. The same level of blind determinism without any reasoning or sense behind it.

Town bunny does not do those things. He just sits on the sidelines and asks questions. Pretty meek ones under the radar on D1 usually too.

It's day 1...vs KiLo. And I'm trying to not be a loud asshole on day 1 to get reads like I have been the last few games. It's not fun. Are you that offended I'm pushing you for playing identically to the mini game?

Not offended, excited. I think you overplayed your hand and got it stuck in the jar.

I have no hand. But after work I'll be digging up if you've responded this much to a vote D1.

[e.m.c^42]

##vote Chaqa

Whether or not he's scum, lazy cheese strategies [snip}

Lol the fact that you used cheese to describe Chaqa automatically makes this valid, so glad that someone else is picking up these great descriptors.

[dargorygel]

##GM NOTE
Please remember to not forget to not +1. Other than GM posts. But nobody else. Thanks.

[Vecna]

back off darg, that +1 was earned

[jasnah]

##GM NOTE
Please remember to not forget to not +1. Other than GM posts. But nobody else. Thanks.

I'll gladly remember
to not forget
to not
do this thing that's against the rules, and in addition I urge town to also remember to not forget to not fall for the basic manipulation, gaslighting, and flat out lying that seems to be so popular these days. Stay the course and pursue the truth all.

[e.m.c^42]

Dammit, I lost the post. But to whoever said "Chaqa was a threat", literally no one fears Chaqa as town lmao. His whole schtick and effectiveness is based on underestimation, intentional to boot.

Unless I misread it and it's fear of scum!Chaqa, but that's neither here nor there.

[Vecna]

Maybe scum Jamiet was so happy to see that I was about to death-tunnel Bunny that he felt it was ok to break the rules (that he enforces himself, keeping us all from doing it) and +1 my post.

Now its etched into my brain that he broke his own rule. On that post.

[Vecna]

Dammit, I lost the post. But to whoever said "Chaqa was a threat", literally no one fears Chaqa as town lmao. His whole schtick and effectiveness is based on underestimation, intentional to boot.

Unless I misread it and it's fear of scum!Chaqa, but that's neither here nor there.

But you and I both remember when he -was- a threat as town.

Even in that stupid among us, he loves to lead and is actually useful.

I dont wanna play with this lame-ass version of Chaqa if he is town. Get him the fuck out of here. murder-death-kill. Id rather have 10 ghugs or 3 bo_socks.

[e.m.c^42]

@Vecna you never answered what the EMC test for damo was. Also, does damo know about the test?

This is sort of ew, since you aren't Chaqa and I am certain I did explain this already in detail in past games. Or more of, we've had this exact same conversation before.

We probably have, but I didn't remember the details.

We are quite literally having repeated conversation, almost word for word. Let me find it.

[e.m.c^42]

We are quite literally having repeated conversation, almost word for word. Let me find it.

@Vecna you never answered what the EMC test for damo was. Also, does damo know about the test?

EMC just has this thing of "if damo is acting very happy, he's scum".

Obviously he's aware of it. Theres a reason im pushing Damo for more participation.

Interesting. My stated damo read is that if he's bored then he's scum. But everyone reads tone differently.

I've been specifically asked to change the topic. What's your read of damo based on? It was pretty quick. I usually can't read him that fast, and I've been scum with him something like 4 or 5 times.

ez metric,

if damo = happy
damo is scum

Interesting. My metric has been: If damo = bored then damo is scum.