Austria vs Bots

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DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#181 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:04 am

georgefc3 wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:15 am
Doug writes:

France:
F Bre->MAO. A Par->Gas. A Marseilles->Spain. : 27
F Bre->MAO. A Par->Gas. A Marseilles H. : 5
F Bre->MAO. A Par->Gas. A Marseilles->Bur. : 15
F Bre->MAO. A Par->Bur. A Marseilles S->Bur from Par. : 4
This is pretty interesting. Can you discuss more about your moves? See above. When playing France what if Germany moves to Burgundy? I normally play your second favorite MAO, GAS and BUR. If Germany moves to Burgundy you bounce and still get two builds. Does this make sense?

For Austria... you have this (will hit submit and quote your moves...)
Yes, it makes sense to me.

I drew France in the second press game I ever played and used MAO,Gas,Spa and got a solo out of it by getting E/G to fight and stabbing E, then G. So I'm a little more partial to it than I should be. I like the idea of the follow-up of Gas->Por C MAO, Spa H, which keeps MAO in place for a potential follow up to IRI or NAO (or supporting Bre-ENC) in S1902 (instead of being in Por where it needs a turn to get back into play). Doesn't always happen that way, but I like it. I also seem to gravitate towards the notion of not fighting over Belgium in 1901, let E/G fight over it (and hopefully that leads to a larger conflict).

I'm sure I've had games in those 27 where Germany has moved to Burgundy - it does get tough then. (And I'm sure I've had some as well where England moved to ENC) and then it becomes a guessing game of "what are they going to do?" the I'm pretty sure I've guessed right more often than not, but, again, would have to do the analysis to see.

At some point I will take my openings and "attach" them to the games so I can break down the Solo/Draw/Survive/Out by opening, but that's a ways off.
georgefc3 wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:08 pm
Changing subjects just a little, this is what I think France's optimal strategy is.

MAO
GAS
BUR

The army moving to Burgundy will bounce Germany if he moves there. The army in Gascony can cover Brest in the fall if necessary. France should get two builds. I suggest that the best strategy would be to build an army in Paris and a Fleet in Marseilles. This is not overtly anti-England.

With luck Germany and France will start fighting. And the fleets can make their way back to English waters....
I don't think this is a bad opening, I've played it the second most. It definitely has its merits. Again, I'll have to see how it compares to the other ones in terms of results.

I don't play the Maginot (Mar S Par->Bur) often only because it seems so... boring. It's definitely strong as well (and some think the best French gunboat opening) as you have units adjacent to all of Bel/Spa/Por.

I was actually surprised I have only played four different French openings against the bots.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#182 Post by georgefc3 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:48 pm


Doug writes

I don't think this is a bad opening, I've played it the second most. It definitely has its merits. Again, I'll have to see how it compares to the other ones in terms of results.

I don't play the Maginot (Mar S Par->Bur) often only because it seems so... boring. It's definitely strong as well (and some think the best French gunboat opening) as you have units adjacent to all of Bel/Spa/Por.

I was actually surprised I have only played four different French openings against the bots.
If it is not clear what the best opening trying different things help explore the possibilities. You can see what works in practice.

By the way I have never convoyed Gas to Por. That is an excellent idea. Thanks for the tip!

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#183 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:53 pm

georgefc3 wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:48 pm
Trig writes:

George, I think your idea to open strong to Serbia and Albania is a good one. I'm not sure I have the full data to agree or not that it is the best approach. I am curious what Doug thinks about it. I have also experimented with this alternative opening for Austria:

F Tri->Alb, A Vie->Gal, A Bud->Tri

You only get 1 build in 1901, but you protect yourself against Italy opening hostile, especially against Ven->Tri. So far, the two times I've used it, Italy did not attack, and I managed to win both games even with the slower start. Here is one example:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
I am not sure that that this really solves the problem with Italy. I did some checking from earlier in the thread. Doug reports 18 games where Italy moves to Trieste. I think the big threat from Italy is moving to Tyrolia and Rome. If I remember correctly Italy opened this way in 137 or 147 games. In other words, it is way more common.

I think I would rather hope and pray for an Italian alliance. According to the statistics you could reasonably hope for a win with at least 40% of the games. If Italy attacks and you (somehow) survive that would up that rate to what? Maybe 50%.

The point here is that there is an optimum strategy. If you agree with that then every country (France, Austria, etc) should open the same way, every time.

From what I am seeing there are different things he is trying. Some of these will work, others will work less often. But clearly the bots are stupid and even with a less then optimal opening you can end up winning.
Sorry I haven't responded yet, been busy...

It's hard to say (since I haven't done the work of attaching the moves to the games yet, but I will) but I'm pretty sure that lately I have gravitated towards Alb/Ser/Gal.

The last game I played as Austria (https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=424484) was interesting because Italy moved Ven-Tri but also Rom-Apu. I don't remember if it was the *first* time I thought of it, but I wondered if Italy was trying to play the fabled "Key Lepanto" opening, where he goes Ven->Tri->Ser... so I moved Ser->Gre instead of Alb->Gre, and, sure enough, Italy moved to Serbia. If France hadn't come south, it might have worked out.

I'm not sure there's an "optimal" strategy. I'm going to continue to analyze the data in different ways and see what I come up with. It's always been a debate with Austria whether or not he needs 2 builds in 1901. There is definitely a train of gunboat thought out there to not defend against Italy because if he attacks you you're dead anyway so why bother? I wish I could remember where I'd read that.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#184 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:56 pm

georgefc3 wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:48 pm

Doug writes

I don't think this is a bad opening, I've played it the second most. It definitely has its merits. Again, I'll have to see how it compares to the other ones in terms of results.

I don't play the Maginot (Mar S Par->Bur) often only because it seems so... boring. It's definitely strong as well (and some think the best French gunboat opening) as you have units adjacent to all of Bel/Spa/Por.

I was actually surprised I have only played four different French openings against the bots.
If it is not clear what the best opening trying different things help explore the possibilities. You can see what works in practice.

By the way I have never convoyed Gas to Por. That is an excellent idea. Thanks for the tip!
It's a totally unnecessary convoy, as MAO could just hold with Spa->Por, Gas->Spa... but it does give (a rather flimsy) excuse for that fleet setting on MAO. Plus I just like convoys. :-)

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#185 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:53 pm

Meanwhile, over in my England game, I decided to do the following in S1910:

The south:

Based on Turkey's moves, I very much debated the idea of convoying Mar-Tus with support from TYS and then using Spain to backfill Mar. Would have blown up the fleet in Tus (which is good for me) but not sure whether or not it provides any real tactical advantage... so since the turn time was running out I stuck with:
WES, Tun, GOL S TYS, Spa S Mar.

The north:
I really wanted to achieve two things - surround Munich as much as possible, and get a fleet past Denmark. I wasn't super worried about taking Holland, moving to Ruhr and backfilling Belgium seemed more important. I also wanted to get into Kie if possible (to have Bur/Ruh/Kie surrounding Munich).

The result:
As stated, would have gotten into Tus in the south.
The north didn't work as well as I would have like, I should have realized Germany was going to move Hol->Kie (which I think would have been better for me as that unit then could influence Berlin. I also could have supported Pru->Liv even though it wouldn't have mattered.

Time to eat lunch, pre-fall thoughts to follow.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#186 Post by georgefc3 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:37 pm

Doug writes
It's a totally unnecessary convoy, as MAO could just hold with Spa->Por, Gas->Spa... but it does give (a rather flimsy) excuse for that fleet setting on MAO. Plus I just like convoys. :-)
Not necessarily. If you move to MAO, GAS and BUR you won't have a unit in Spain.

It is small difference but I would like the unit in MAO rather than Portugal.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#187 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:30 pm

georgefc3 wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:37 pm
Doug writes
It's a totally unnecessary convoy, as MAO could just hold with Spa->Por, Gas->Spa... but it does give (a rather flimsy) excuse for that fleet setting on MAO. Plus I just like convoys. :-)
Not necessarily. If you move to MAO, GAS and BUR you won't have a unit in Spain.

It is small difference but I would like the unit in MAO rather than Portugal.
Oh, true, you were talking about the MAO/GAS/BUR opening. Then yes it does make a difference. I was thinking of the MAO/GAS/SPA opening, which it doesn't.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#188 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:01 pm

An update on T-0128. Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy weekend. Here is the latest frame:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Yes, my friends, I'm afraid your English correspondent flew a bit too close to the sun, and got burned. In hindsight, it's quite obvious I should have built a fleet and pushed it into NTH. Now I'll have to scramble to recover my position. This could cost me the solo.

Moral of the story: Yes, the bots tend to be quite loyal, but if you give them an opportunity to stab that's too good to pass up, well, they won't pass it up!

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#189 Post by DougJoe » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:10 am

Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:01 pm
An update on T-0128. Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy weekend. Here is the latest frame:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Yes, my friends, I'm afraid your English correspondent flew a bit too close to the sun, and got burned. In hindsight, it's quite obvious I should have built a fleet and pushed it into NTH. Now I'll have to scramble to recover my position. This could cost me the solo.

Moral of the story: Yes, the bots tend to be quite loyal, but if you give them an opportunity to stab that's too good to pass up, well, they won't pass it up!
I was going to say something at one point about Germany still having two fleets and didn't - maybe that's why I was hedging against attacking Italy previously.

Don't give up! You at least should be able keep Sev to offset the loss of Norway or Edi... you can take a shot at Paris, use ENC to cover London, use Moscow to support Warsaw. Italy has his hands full with Turkey and you should be able to retreat out of the Mediterranean in such a way as to hold off an Italian offensive if he goes that route and get some of your fleets back to deal with the German.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#190 Post by Trigfea63 » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:26 am

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:10 am
Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:01 pm
An update on T-0128. Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy weekend. Here is the latest frame:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Yes, my friends, I'm afraid your English correspondent flew a bit too close to the sun, and got burned. In hindsight, it's quite obvious I should have built a fleet and pushed it into NTH. Now I'll have to scramble to recover my position. This could cost me the solo.

Moral of the story: Yes, the bots tend to be quite loyal, but if you give them an opportunity to stab that's too good to pass up, well, they won't pass it up!
I was going to say something at one point about Germany still having two fleets and didn't - maybe that's why I was hedging against attacking Italy previously.

Don't give up! You at least should be able keep Sev to offset the loss of Norway or Edi... you can take a shot at Paris, use ENC to cover London, use Moscow to support Warsaw. Italy has his hands full with Turkey and you should be able to retreat out of the Mediterranean in such a way as to hold off an Italian offensive if he goes that route and get some of your fleets back to deal with the German.
Yes, I'm definitely not giving up. I still have 10 units and lots of fleets that can (slowly) make their way back from the Med. My thinking now is, get as many SCs as possible this autumn. Having a build vs. not having a build this winter makes a big difference in my ability to repel the German attack. Moscow is pretty well assured, but that's offset by Germany taking Edi or Norway. I thought I'd take my best shot at Tunis (WES-->TUN supported by NAf, GoL-->TyS). I have to choose between Paris or Belgium. I'd rather take a center from Germany than France, but most important is gaining a center. Do you think Germany will use Burgundy to defend Belgium? To defend Paris?? If I go after Paris, I would probably order ENG-->NTH, to bounce the second German fleet. I doubt Germany would order NTH-->LON when he has a clear pathway to Norway or Edi. For sure Moscow will support-hold Warsaw (and hopefully Turkey is smart enough not to move the Warsaw army).

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#191 Post by Trigfea63 » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:36 am

DougJoe wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:53 pm
Meanwhile, over in my England game, I decided to do the following in S1910:

The south:

Based on Turkey's moves, I very much debated the idea of convoying Mar-Tus with support from TYS and then using Spain to backfill Mar. Would have blown up the fleet in Tus (which is good for me) but not sure whether or not it provides any real tactical advantage... so since the turn time was running out I stuck with:
WES, Tun, GOL S TYS, Spa S Mar.

The north:
I really wanted to achieve two things - surround Munich as much as possible, and get a fleet past Denmark. I wasn't super worried about taking Holland, moving to Ruhr and backfilling Belgium seemed more important. I also wanted to get into Kie if possible (to have Bur/Ruh/Kie surrounding Munich).

The result:
As stated, would have gotten into Tus in the south.
The north didn't work as well as I would have like, I should have realized Germany was going to move Hol->Kie (which I think would have been better for me as that unit then could influence Berlin. I also could have supported Pru->Liv even though it wouldn't have mattered.

Time to eat lunch, pre-fall thoughts to follow.
Not that I should talk, but I would think just hold the line in the Med. No need for offensive maneuvers, you're not likely to get Italian centers from Turkey. You could even consider pulling back from TyS: TyS-->GoL, GoL-->MAR, and MAR-->BUR. You'd still have an unbreakable line in the Med and you'd free up the Marseilles army for action in Germany.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#192 Post by DougJoe » Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:26 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:26 am
DougJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:10 am
Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:01 pm
An update on T-0128. Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy weekend. Here is the latest frame:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Yes, my friends, I'm afraid your English correspondent flew a bit too close to the sun, and got burned. In hindsight, it's quite obvious I should have built a fleet and pushed it into NTH. Now I'll have to scramble to recover my position. This could cost me the solo.

Moral of the story: Yes, the bots tend to be quite loyal, but if you give them an opportunity to stab that's too good to pass up, well, they won't pass it up!
I was going to say something at one point about Germany still having two fleets and didn't - maybe that's why I was hedging against attacking Italy previously.

Don't give up! You at least should be able keep Sev to offset the loss of Norway or Edi... you can take a shot at Paris, use ENC to cover London, use Moscow to support Warsaw. Italy has his hands full with Turkey and you should be able to retreat out of the Mediterranean in such a way as to hold off an Italian offensive if he goes that route and get some of your fleets back to deal with the German.
Yes, I'm definitely not giving up. I still have 10 units and lots of fleets that can (slowly) make their way back from the Med. My thinking now is, get as many SCs as possible this autumn. Having a build vs. not having a build this winter makes a big difference in my ability to repel the German attack. Moscow is pretty well assured, but that's offset by Germany taking Edi or Norway. I thought I'd take my best shot at Tunis (WES-->TUN supported by NAf, GoL-->TyS). I have to choose between Paris or Belgium. I'd rather take a center from Germany than France, but most important is gaining a center. Do you think Germany will use Burgundy to defend Belgium? To defend Paris?? If I go after Paris, I would probably order ENG-->NTH, to bounce the second German fleet. I doubt Germany would order NTH-->LON when he has a clear pathway to Norway or Edi. For sure Moscow will support-hold Warsaw (and hopefully Turkey is smart enough not to move the Warsaw army).
It's really hard to say where the bot is going, but I think he would prioritize defending his own center against taking France's... although you have not done anything hostile to him yet, so he may think that he doesn't need to defend Belgium... it's very hard to say here, but personally I would lean towards trying for Paris (especially since he can't try to take it). The ENC-NTH bounce is a good idea, I think, if you go for Paris. I think that you are correct in that Edi/Nwy is the more likely target. (And you know what really wouldn't surprise me? If Germany tried to move NTH->ENC... I'm not 100% sure you are seeing a German stab - I know that sounds weird, but where else could his fleets go to be useful? The natural path out is NTH->ENC...)

As far as the south, my *guess* is that the bot will defend Tunis (instead of moving ION back towards Turkey) because of your mass of fleets. I think it would be more efficient to get back to the mainland as fast as possible rather than use up a turn trying to take Tunis when you're not sure you will get it. You can always leave a fleet nearby while the rest go north - if Italy ends up losing a lot of units this year then you can at least be in the area to try for it next year.

Curious to see what happens.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#193 Post by DougJoe » Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:30 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:36 am
DougJoe wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:53 pm
Meanwhile, over in my England game, I decided to do the following in S1910:

The south:

Based on Turkey's moves, I very much debated the idea of convoying Mar-Tus with support from TYS and then using Spain to backfill Mar. Would have blown up the fleet in Tus (which is good for me) but not sure whether or not it provides any real tactical advantage... so since the turn time was running out I stuck with:
WES, Tun, GOL S TYS, Spa S Mar.

The north:
I really wanted to achieve two things - surround Munich as much as possible, and get a fleet past Denmark. I wasn't super worried about taking Holland, moving to Ruhr and backfilling Belgium seemed more important. I also wanted to get into Kie if possible (to have Bur/Ruh/Kie surrounding Munich).

The result:
As stated, would have gotten into Tus in the south.
The north didn't work as well as I would have like, I should have realized Germany was going to move Hol->Kie (which I think would have been better for me as that unit then could influence Berlin. I also could have supported Pru->Liv even though it wouldn't have mattered.

Time to eat lunch, pre-fall thoughts to follow.
Not that I should talk, but I would think just hold the line in the Med. No need for offensive maneuvers, you're not likely to get Italian centers from Turkey. You could even consider pulling back from TyS: TyS-->GoL, GoL-->MAR, and MAR-->BUR. You'd still have an unbreakable line in the Med and you'd free up the Marseilles army for action in Germany.
No doubt, I know it's locked if I want it to be... but as a general rule, though, I am always looking for tactical weaknesses in the bot move sets just to see if there's something that's useful. "Checks, captures, and attacks", as a chess streamer I watch likes to say.

I think for now, I am going to stay defensive in the south, and in the North go for both Kiel and Holland. I'm hoping that the empty spaces that will (likely) result in Boh/Sil will give me a chance to get into Munich and then Berlin, but we'll see.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#194 Post by Trigfea63 » Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:29 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:26 pm
(And you know what really wouldn't surprise me? If Germany tried to move NTH->ENC... I'm not 100% sure you are seeing a German stab - I know that sounds weird, but where else could his fleets go to be useful? The natural path out is NTH->ENC...)
^^^^^ Very helpful. I considered this briefly, but didn't really take it seriously. I think you might be right. The bot brain works in strange ways sometimes. This also suggests I shouldn't directly attack Germany, until I know Germany is actually hostile. So Paris it is. Should I even consider "letting the German fleets out" through ENC? The trouble is, where can they go to attack anyone but me?
DougJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:26 pm
As far as the south, my *guess* is that the bot will defend Tunis (instead of moving ION back towards Turkey) because of your mass of fleets. I think it would be more efficient to get back to the mainland as fast as possible rather than use up a turn trying to take Tunis when you're not sure you will get it. You can always leave a fleet nearby while the rest go north - if Italy ends up losing a lot of units this year then you can at least be in the area to try for it next year.

Curious to see what happens.
I can't really get the fleets back to the north any faster than 1-by-1 through MAO. But still, maybe it's better not to attack Italy, and hope Italy views Turkey as the bigger threat (which it is). If I get builds for Paris and Moscow, and Germany doesn't take one of my centers, I get 2 builds. That would be more than enough for now. It looks like Turkey might take a net of 2 Italian centers this year. But, Italy had 2 units destroyed in the spring so probably no further destructions in the winter adjustments. I still have the "Not Ready" flag up, will think about these moves more before the deadline.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#195 Post by Trigfea63 » Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:31 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:30 pm
No doubt, I know it's locked if I want it to be... but as a general rule, though, I am always looking for tactical weaknesses in the bot move sets just to see if there's something that's useful. "Checks, captures, and attacks", as a chess streamer I watch likes to say.
Makes sense. The bots do some strange things in the endgame. You never know.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#196 Post by DougJoe » Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:38 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:29 pm

^^^^^ Very helpful. I considered this briefly, but didn't really take it seriously. I think you might be right. The bot brain works in strange ways sometimes. This also suggests I shouldn't directly attack Germany, until I know Germany is actually hostile. So Paris it is. Should I even consider "letting the German fleets out" through ENC? The trouble is, where can they go to attack anyone but me?
He might just be wanting to break out into the Mediterranean (because that's the "trained pattern") regardless of who is there. It's hard to say.
Trigfea63 wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:29 pm
I can't really get the fleets back to the north any faster than 1-by-1 through MAO. But still, maybe it's better not to attack Italy, and hope Italy views Turkey as the bigger threat (which it is). If I get builds for Paris and Moscow, and Germany doesn't take one of my centers, I get 2 builds. That would be more than enough for now. It looks like Turkey might take a net of 2 Italian centers this year. But, Italy had 2 units destroyed in the spring so probably no further destructions in the winter adjustments. I still have the "Not Ready" flag up, will think about these moves more before the deadline.
True, it's a slow backfill... but if you put at least one unit in MAO this turn, that's one less turn it takes to get to Edi, just in case. I missed that Italy was already down two units.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#197 Post by DougJoe » Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:34 am

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:30 pm

I think for now, I am going to stay defensive in the south, and in the North go for both Kiel and Holland. I'm hoping that the empty spaces that will (likely) result in Boh/Sil will give me a chance to get into Munich and then Berlin, but we'll see.
Got Hol and Kie. Germany lost Silesia to Russia, which makes things much harder. Germany will be down to one unit. I build two. Russia builds one, no doubt army Warsaw. I'm thinking two armies, Lon and Edi, with two options for the spring: Either Lon->Bel, Edi->Nwy (maybe getting into livonia eventually?) *or* keeping them on the mainland for the spring, and moving NTH->Den, ENC-NTH, then convoying in the fall, with Den->BAL. I'm not sure yet which idea I like better, although the army moves in Germany are *probably* going to be Kie->Mun S Ruh and Bur, Hol->Kie... but even if I get Munich in the spring I'm not sure I can hold it, not if I take it from Kie.

Still thinking on it, have until Friday :-)

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#198 Post by Trigfea63 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:04 am

DougJoe wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:34 am
DougJoe wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:30 pm

I think for now, I am going to stay defensive in the south, and in the North go for both Kiel and Holland. I'm hoping that the empty spaces that will (likely) result in Boh/Sil will give me a chance to get into Munich and then Berlin, but we'll see.
Got Hol and Kie. Germany lost Silesia to Russia, which makes things much harder. Germany will be down to one unit. I build two. Russia builds one, no doubt army Warsaw. I'm thinking two armies, Lon and Edi, with two options for the spring: Either Lon->Bel, Edi->Nwy (maybe getting into livonia eventually?) *or* keeping them on the mainland for the spring, and moving NTH->Den, ENC-NTH, then convoying in the fall, with Den->BAL. I'm not sure yet which idea I like better, although the army moves in Germany are *probably* going to be Kie->Mun S Ruh and Bur, Hol->Kie... but even if I get Munich in the spring I'm not sure I can hold it, not if I take it from Kie.

Still thinking on it, have until Friday :-)
Well done! I think you can hold Munich if you take it from Kiel, and backfill Kiel from Holland. Then you need to find a way into Berlin or Moscow. Getting into Livonia is the right goal. Maybe you can sneak the StP army in, with NWY-->StP following behind. Russia could plug that up next turn with WAR-->LVN though. To force a breakthrough, you may need fleets in Baltic and GoB. Even with his new build, Russia doesn't have quite enough armies to form a stalemate line along the northern coast, not if he moves GAL-->BOH. Should be an interesting ending!

Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#199 Post by Trigfea63 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:44 pm

The Autumn 1910 results in T-0128:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Things went relatively well. Not perfect, but good. Germany didn't defend Paris. He did take Norway. So I'm +1. Germany is +2. France is dead. Turkey and Italy are each at 7 units and no builds or removals. I'm inclined to build a fleet, to try to gain control of North Sea, or at least keep Germany out. I expect 1911 will be challenging. More on the specific moves in the next update.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#200 Post by DougJoe » Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:11 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:44 pm
The Autumn 1910 results in T-0128:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Things went relatively well. Not perfect, but good. Germany didn't defend Paris. He did take Norway. So I'm +1. Germany is +2. France is dead. Turkey and Italy are each at 7 units and no builds or removals. I'm inclined to build a fleet, to try to gain control of North Sea, or at least keep Germany out. I expect 1911 will be challenging. More on the specific moves in the next update.
Glad that you didn't try for Tunis. :-) Like I said before, I didn't think Italy was going to do anything with ION other that support Tun.

I think you need another fleet as well, and I think you need to seriously consider switching to Germany being your main focus.

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