Austria vs Bots

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DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#21 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:58 pm

Notes from England, Autumn 1901:

Well, the German bot played that weird opening that I've seen sometimes where he moves to Tyo, Sil, and Hol. He bounced Italy out of Tyo, which I think is good, but Italy seemed to also split his ambitions and moved to Apu like he wants to convoy into Tunis as opposed to the Rom->Ven followup to Ven->Tyo.
Austria moved Vie to Tri instead of Gal and now the Russian is sitting in Gal, although he's got Germany in Silesia to think about.
Russia will get Sweden and Rumania, which means a build in StP is probably on the way. France might actually get 3, I don't know if Germany will bounce him in Belgium or not. I'll be curious to see whether or not Russia covers Warsaw or takes a shot at Vie or Gal. With Sweden being a given, I suspect he will try for an Austrian center.

England can take Denmark and Norway without any issue. I don't see any reason not to take either at this point. Where to put the army, then, Norway or Denmark? Going to think about that one a little bit more.

Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#22 Post by Trigfea63 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:54 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:58 pm
Notes from England, Autumn 1901:

Well, the German bot played that weird opening that I've seen sometimes where he moves to Tyo, Sil, and Hol. He bounced Italy out of Tyo, which I think is good, but Italy seemed to also split his ambitions and moved to Apu like he wants to convoy into Tunis as opposed to the Rom->Ven followup to Ven->Tyo.
Austria moved Vie to Tri instead of Gal and now the Russian is sitting in Gal, although he's got Germany in Silesia to think about.
Russia will get Sweden and Rumania, which means a build in StP is probably on the way. France might actually get 3, I don't know if Germany will bounce him in Belgium or not. I'll be curious to see whether or not Russia covers Warsaw or takes a shot at Vie or Gal. With Sweden being a given, I suspect he will try for an Austrian center.

England can take Denmark and Norway without any issue. I don't see any reason not to take either at this point. Where to put the army, then, Norway or Denmark? Going to think about that one a little bit more.
On fleet/army choice, it's a close call. It's better to have the army in Norway, fleet in Denmark. On the other hand, that would leave you with a fleet in Norwegian, not as good as the fleet in North Sea if you do it the other way.

P.S. - Doug, you win the prize for most interesting game name, hands down!

Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#23 Post by Trigfea63 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:00 pm

As far as the builds go, generally I tend to hold off on building fleets because I don't know how the Italian bot will react... but that doesn't mean your builds are "wrong" to any degree, either. I assume your next target is Bulgaria?
I tend to do the same, but I regret not having enough fleets later ...

Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#24 Post by Trigfea63 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:19 pm

Here is the correct link to my England game:
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429773

Fall 1901. Germany opened MUN-->TYR and he has a 50/50 guess at TRI/VIE. He is totally non-threatening to France. He can't even contest Belgium. Meantime, France opened to PIC, not BUR, and is totally non-threatening to Germany. I've seen the movie where France and Germany ally. It doesn't end well for England. I think it's important to somehow get the two of them fighting. In the east, Russia opened SEV-->RUM and Turkey opened to Black Sea. That gives Turkey a 50/50 guess at RUM/SEV. If Russia loses that guess *and* Germany bounces him in Sweden, we'll be looking at a weakened Russia, with zero builds.

This turn, I'll convoy the army to Norway. The question is, which way, and what to do with the other fleet? One option is to bounce France in Belgium. I don't love the idea of France getting 3 builds in 1901. Another is to play more offensively, NTH-->SKA or NWG-->Barents. I'm inclined to go with the bounce in Belgium but I would welcome your thoughts.

georgefc3
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#25 Post by georgefc3 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:13 pm

No... Rumania.

I have played this before in one of my other Austria games and Italy is a-ok with me building a fleet. Or was. We will see.

georgefc3
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#26 Post by georgefc3 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm

Ok... The builds are in.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429820

Lots of fleet builds. Including Brest, Smyrna, Naples and Sevastopol.

My plan is to support myself and Russia in the spring, move to the Aegean and take Rumania in the fall.

The advantage of waiting until '02 to take Rumania is that the other powers will be more committed to whatever war is on their minds. I can take Rumania at my leisure. And hopefully Italy will continue with the Lepanto.

DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#27 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:02 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:19 pm
Here is the correct link to my England game:
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429773

Fall 1901. Germany opened MUN-->TYR and he has a 50/50 guess at TRI/VIE. He is totally non-threatening to France. He can't even contest Belgium. Meantime, France opened to PIC, not BUR, and is totally non-threatening to Germany. I've seen the movie where France and Germany ally. It doesn't end well for England. I think it's important to somehow get the two of them fighting. In the east, Russia opened SEV-->RUM and Turkey opened to Black Sea. That gives Turkey a 50/50 guess at RUM/SEV. If Russia loses that guess *and* Germany bounces him in Sweden, we'll be looking at a weakened Russia, with zero builds.

This turn, I'll convoy the army to Norway. The question is, which way, and what to do with the other fleet? One option is to bounce France in Belgium. I don't love the idea of France getting 3 builds in 1901. Another is to play more offensively, NTH-->SKA or NWG-->Barents. I'm inclined to go with the bounce in Belgium but I would welcome your thoughts.
The bounce in Belgium seems reasonable given the lack of potential conflict between F/G.

DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#28 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:35 pm

georgefc3 wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm
Ok... The builds are in.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429820

Lots of fleet builds. Including Brest, Smyrna, Naples and Sevastopol.

My plan is to support myself and Russia in the spring, move to the Aegean and take Rumania in the fall.

The advantage of waiting until '02 to take Rumania is that the other powers will be more committed to whatever war is on their minds. I can take Rumania at my leisure. And hopefully Italy will continue with the Lepanto.
I suspect Turkey will move BLA to Rum supported by Bul and bounce you out of the Aegean. Con will support Bul. Russia, I'm really not sure. I don't think he would do Rum-BLA S Sev, but Sev-BLA S Rum doesn't seem any better. Maybe Sev S Rum? He really needs that army in Urk or Gal, but I don't think he'll move it away from War.

DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#29 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:15 pm

Meanwhile in England, I decided to convoy to Norway.

Germany bounced France in Belgium, and seems to really want to go after Austria... and only gets one build. Russia covered Warsaw and so will build his two units in StP and Mos. Turkey tried to take Rum but failed, guessing he'll still build F Sny, as Austria and Italy appear to be playing nice. Austria will build armies in Tri and Ven, the Germans will get nothing. Expecting F Bre A Par from France to move towards the channel.

Builds for England will be F Lon, A Edi.

georgefc3
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#30 Post by georgefc3 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:24 pm

This is a little confusing, having the English game being included in this thread. But let's try to make it work...

You write "This turn, I'll convoy the army to Norway. The question is, which way, and what to do with the other fleet? One option is to bounce France in Belgium. I don't love the idea of France getting 3 builds in 1901. Another is to play more offensively, NTH-->SKA or NWG-->Barents. I'm inclined to go with the bounce in Belgium but I would welcome your thoughts."

I think it would be smart to bounce him in Belgium.

Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#31 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:41 am

Understood on the confusion point. I'll try to be clear which game I'm referring to. On the Austria game:
DougJoe wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:35 pm
georgefc3 wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm
Ok... The builds are in.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429820

Lots of fleet builds. Including Brest, Smyrna, Naples and Sevastopol.

My plan is to support myself and Russia in the spring, move to the Aegean and take Rumania in the fall.

The advantage of waiting until '02 to take Rumania is that the other powers will be more committed to whatever war is on their minds. I can take Rumania at my leisure. And hopefully Italy will continue with the Lepanto.
I suspect Turkey will move BLA to Rum supported by Bul and bounce you out of the Aegean. Con will support Bul. Russia, I'm really not sure. I don't think he would do Rum-BLA S Sev, but Sev-BLA S Rum doesn't seem any better. Maybe Sev S Rum? He really needs that army in Urk or Gal, but I don't think he'll move it away from War.
I agree with all of those Turkey predictions. I expect Russia will order SEV support-hold RUM, and RUM support your Austrian Army SER-->BUL in recognition of your support into RUM last turn. If that is all correct, you will still need the support of your Fleet GRE to take BUL, and you will have to choose between bouncing the Aegean move or taking BUL in the spring. On the other hand, if the Turkey predictions are correct and if Russia *doesn't* order support for SER-->BUL, you can't take BUL no matter what you do, and the Aegean bounce is clearly the way to go. Which is all a long-winded way of saying, your plan for 1902 is solid. 8-)

Moving to Doug's England game:
DougJoe wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:15 pm
Meanwhile in England, I decided to convoy to Norway.

Germany bounced France in Belgium, and seems to really want to go after Austria... and only gets one build. Russia covered Warsaw and so will build his two units in StP and Mos. Turkey tried to take Rum but failed, guessing he'll still build F Sny, as Austria and Italy appear to be playing nice. Austria will build armies in Tri and Ven, the Germans will get nothing. Expecting F Bre A Par from France to move towards the channel.

Builds for England will be F Lon, A Edi.
The builds revealed since you posted, and France built 2 armies, which is awesome for England. Maybe he couldn't resist the wide-open Germany with only 1 build ...

Finally, in my own England game, I bounced France in Belgium, no surprise. Germany bounced Russia in Sweden, Austria guessed right and blocked Germany's move on Vienna, and Turkey guessed right and took RUM from Russia, destroying Russia's southern fleet. Russia is in some trouble. He does have a build coming, to compensate for the destroyed fleet. I also have a build coming. France has 2, and I'd be shocked if 1 of them isn't F BRE. Which means I have to build F LON, or else use North Sea to bounce in the Channel next spring, not a great use of the North Sea fleet. F LON it is.

georgefc3
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#32 Post by georgefc3 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:42 am

There are two England games?? I've seen the link for T-0128:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429773

Can I have the link for the other?

Also, which is Doug's and... Man, this is awkward, what is your name/handle?

I'm George, by the way.

georgefc3
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#33 Post by georgefc3 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:59 am

My plan for this turn is to bounce in the Aegean and support Russia for now.

Moves:
A Gal & Bud S A Rum (Russian unit)
A Ser - Bul
F Gre - Aeg
F Tri - Alb

New Map:
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429820

There was some question about what the Russian unit in Warsaw was going to do. He moved to Galicia. So if I "stole" Rumania he could have gone after Vienna or Budapest....

Italy moved to the Eastern Med so a Lepanto is set in motion.

georgefc3
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#34 Post by georgefc3 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:04 am

Ok...

My tentative plan for the fall

Gal - Rum
Ser S Gal - Rum
Bul S Gal - Rum
F Gre - Aeg
F Alb - Gre

I should win Rumania. Then can build an army in Vienna.

Thoughts, comments?

DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#35 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:30 pm

georgefc3 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:42 am
There are two England games?? I've seen the link for T-0128:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429773

Can I have the link for the other?

Also, which is Doug's and... Man, this is awkward, what is your name/handle?

I'm George, by the way.
Here's mine: https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=429768

DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#36 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:48 pm

georgefc3 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:04 am
Ok...

My tentative plan for the fall

Gal - Rum
Ser S Gal - Rum
Bul S Gal - Rum
F Gre - Aeg
F Alb - Gre

I should win Rumania. Then can build an army in Vienna.

Thoughts, comments?
Seems reasonable. Turkey is still attacking Russia so you should be ok. Curious as to whether you will get into AEG or Italy will get into Syria.

Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#37 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:26 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:48 pm
georgefc3 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:04 am
Ok...

My tentative plan for the fall

Gal - Rum
Ser S Gal - Rum
Bul S Gal - Rum
F Gre - Aeg
F Alb - Gre

I should win Rumania. Then can build an army in Vienna.

Thoughts, comments?
Seems reasonable. Turkey is still attacking Russia so you should be ok. Curious as to whether you will get into AEG or Italy will get into Syria.
I agree. And we were both wrong about Russia/Turkey's moves last round. :(

You guys can call me Trig if you like.

I'll be offline most of today.

georgefc3
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#38 Post by georgefc3 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:10 pm

Hey Trig

My guess is that I will be bounced in the Aegean. Turkey blocking the Lepanto is pretty rare in my bot games.

DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#39 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:19 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:41 am

Moving to Doug's England game:

The builds revealed since you posted, and France built 2 armies, which is awesome for England. Maybe he couldn't resist the wide-open Germany with only 1 build ...
Yes, I saw the builds, surprised on the 2 army build from France. I was hoping to see A Mun from Germany instead of A Kie (because Munich could not interfere with Denmark, but oh well.) Nothing else unexpected around the board.

Not sure how I want to proceed next. The way I see it, Russia has three options:
Move Swe->Nor S Stp
Move Stp->Nor S Swe
Move Nor->Fin, Mos->Stp, use Swe to tap Nor.

The third option doesn't really defend Sweden, but has its value in putting three on Norway. I don't think the bot will do this, though, as it will either prioritize taking Norway or defending Sweden. Both other options involve risk to Sweden - either by moving Den-Swe or Nwy-Swe S Den. I suspect bot Russia will guard against the latter by using the first option. Den -> Swe S Nwy, NWG S Nwy would work against that, but I'd prefer to keep Denmark in place.

Given all that, I think that I will slow play this turn - use NWG to support Nwy, use Den to support Lon->NTH. Edi holds and then potentially convoy over in the fall.

Even with the two army builds, want to keep an eye on France.

Also, George and Trig, don't forget that you can "spectate" games... I've got both of yours in my list.

DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#40 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:40 pm

Post Spring 02:

Notice that Turkey stopped attacking Russia and Russia appears to not be hostile to Turkey. Even after Turkey went for Rum in 1901. This is the kind of thing I've seen from the bots in the past - an R/T appears to form even after previous conflict.
Germany was kicked out of Tyrolia by cooperation between Italy and Austria, which I think is good for me. France is either going towards Italy or trying to play the wraparound game to head towards Munich? Not sure. I am guessing that he's going to go MAO-ENC, not sure if I want to allow that or not. Germany also moved Kie to Ruh, so Kie is open and not a factor in relation to Denmark.

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