Austria vs Bots

[Trigfea63]

Yeah, E-F are looking pretty strong. If this were a human game, and I were playing Russia, I would be looking for a stalemate line Turkey and I could defend. It's harder to take that approach in a bot game, since you know bot-Turkey won't be thinking that way. In any event, I don't see how Turkey holds off France in this one. It looks like a French solo, unfortunately.

F07: I made the wrong choice with Boh (potentially backfilling Sil instead of tapping Mun) and lost Tyo. Maybe Lvn-Pru would have been better as well?

W07: England builds army Lon, France fleet Mar.

I was thinking about stalemate lines as well, I'm not sure there is one that holds off both E/F, especially with Italy already having fallen to France.
France is now at 11, England at 10. England's (probably) going to get Mos and War - not sure what else after that. France can eventually force Trieste but where he goes after that, I'm not sure. Getting into any of the Balkans will take forever. I'll probably go out before Turkey does, but we'll see. Hoping that there's a stab here to mix things up a little.

I have to make this as hard as possible for E/F, need to think about how to do that.

You could consider brutally stabbing Turkey and taking over his defensible corner position. Then hope E/F split the remaining SCs roughly evenly so you hold on for a draw. I guess you also have to come up with some external criterion for when you've held on long enough to justify a draw. E/F will probably never stop attacking you, but on the other hand, they will immediately agree to any draw you propose.

[Trigfea63]

I went ahead and built the army in CON. I don't think there was much of a case for building a fleet. So here we are, entering Spr '20:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

The objectives:
1) Destroy the N. Africa fleet / close in on MAO
2) Advance the armies in France
3) Keep Germany from getting to Venice or Piedmont.
4) Discourage Russia from doing anything crazy.

I’m not sure I have the forces to accomplish all of these objectives this turn. My overall position is pretty strong now. I expect I'll get the solo as long as I don't screw something up. I'm inclined to prioritize #3, do what it takes to stop Germany sneaking into Venice or Piedmont. That means Adriatic Sea has to go back to Venice while the Greece army convoys only so far as Apulia. The double convoy would have been better, but now it risks a bounce in Venice which would mean I’d have to use the Ionian fleet for convoying again in the Autumn. Piedmont also has to be covered somehow. I'm thinking of bouncing Marseilles and GoL there.

With GoL and Marseilles occupied, That means I either delay the attack on N. Africa, or I go ahead with the attack and take some risks in the Med. With all the Turkish forces around Spain, it seems pretty likely England will order MAO support-hold SPA. The N. Africa fleet is sort of alone, I’m what to expect there. I could imagine SPA support NAf-->WES, in which case an attack on N. Africa captures N. Africa but doesn't destroy the N. Africa fleet ... unless ... GAS-->SPA solves that problem. So, a tentative set of orders could be:

CON-->BUL
ION convoy GRE-->APU
TUN-->NAf supported by WES
GAS-->SPA
GoL-->PIE
MAR-->PIE
PAR-->BRE

The Paris-to-Brest move is to defend against a concerted attack on Gascony from Brest and Burgundy. I need to ensure that army isn’t destroyed; it took a lot of effort to get it to Gascony! If the bots play BUR-->GAS supported by BRE, Brest’s support is cut and the attack fails. I don't realistically see bot-England ordering BRE-->GAS, not with my army sitting next door in Paris. I also don’t realistically see bot-Germany supporting that from Burgundy. Even if they did those moves, Paris would occupy Brest and Gascony would retreat into Paris. Not bad at all.

What if England does something surprising, something other than MAO support-hold SPA? For example, NAf-->WES supported by MAO. That’s about the worst I can imagine, and it’s highly unlikely the bot will do it. But, just to play it out, NAf captures WES, WES is dislodged and retreats to TYS, Tunis captures NAf. In the Autumn Ionian covers Tunis and it’s 3-on-3 in WES. I think I get the upper hand there anyway in Autumn or the following Spring. Alternatively, if England orders SPA-->WES supported by MAO, SPA captures WES, WES retreats to TYS, TUN does not capture NAf. I think eventually I prevail in that scenario, too. GAS captures Spain -- without an English fleet ending up in Portugal – and I probably end up in Spain, Portugal, and MAO. If England plays MAO-->WES, I think all attacks fail, which is the same as if I support-hold. On balance, these risks seem manageable and worthwhile to achieve goals 1 and 3.

As an alternative (or in addition?) to the above moves in the Med, I could order GAS-->BUR supported by PAR. That takes advantage of Germany’s MUN-->TYR move. Burgundy is dislodged, and Germany has a significant challenge defending Belgium, Ruhr, and Munich. England’s North Sea fleet can help, but it can’t help with Belgium and also move to English Channel.

Or, I could forget about defending Piedmont (wasting 2 well-placed units):

GoL-->SPA
MAR-->BUR supported by PAR
GAS-->BRE
CON-->BUL
ION convoy GRE-->APU
TUN-->NAf supported by WES

I kind of like this last set, actually. It’s risky if Germany orders TYR-->PIE, but I think I could deal with that if it happens.

[Scmoo472]

I might do my own write up on my latest game. I had this idea, and was crazy enough to actually try for it. I have canceled more games than I can remember from just awful openings, or unplanned self-failures.. But at last.. Behold! Total domination!

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=457291

[Trigfea63]

I might do my own write up on my latest game. I had this idea, and was crazy enough to actually try for it. I have canceled more games than I can remember from just awful openings, or unplanned self-failures.. But at last.. Behold! Total domination!

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=457291

Haha, that's awesome, nicely done! There was a thread on this topic a few months ago ...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4260

[Trigfea63]

I think it would be interesting to read your write-up. The other thread just showed the end results of games, there was no analysis. I can replay the games, but that doesn't tell me what were the various considerations involved. Obviously the 34-center solo is not an easy thing to do.

[Trigfea63]

I went ahead and built the army in CON. I don't think there was much of a case for building a fleet. So here we are, entering Spr '20:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

The objectives:
1) Destroy the N. Africa fleet / close in on MAO
2) Advance the armies in France
3) Keep Germany from getting to Venice or Piedmont.
4) Discourage Russia from doing anything crazy.

I’m not sure I have the forces to accomplish all of these objectives this turn. My overall position is pretty strong now. I expect I'll get the solo as long as I don't screw something up. I'm inclined to prioritize #3, do what it takes to stop Germany sneaking into Venice or Piedmont. That means Adriatic Sea has to go back to Venice while the Greece army convoys only so far as Apulia. The double convoy would have been better, but now it risks a bounce in Venice which would mean I’d have to use the Ionian fleet for convoying again in the Autumn. Piedmont also has to be covered somehow. I'm thinking of bouncing Marseilles and GoL there.

With GoL and Marseilles occupied, That means I either delay the attack on N. Africa, or I go ahead with the attack and take some risks in the Med. With all the Turkish forces around Spain, it seems pretty likely England will order MAO support-hold SPA. The N. Africa fleet is sort of alone, I’m what to expect there. I could imagine SPA support NAf-->WES, in which case an attack on N. Africa captures N. Africa but doesn't destroy the N. Africa fleet ... unless ... GAS-->SPA solves that problem. So, a tentative set of orders could be:

CON-->BUL
ION convoy GRE-->APU
TUN-->NAf supported by WES
GAS-->SPA
GoL-->PIE
MAR-->PIE
PAR-->BRE

The Paris-to-Brest move is to defend against a concerted attack on Gascony from Brest and Burgundy. I need to ensure that army isn’t destroyed; it took a lot of effort to get it to Gascony! If the bots play BUR-->GAS supported by BRE, Brest’s support is cut and the attack fails. I don't realistically see bot-England ordering BRE-->GAS, not with my army sitting next door in Paris. I also don’t realistically see bot-Germany supporting that from Burgundy. Even if they did those moves, Paris would occupy Brest and Gascony would retreat into Paris. Not bad at all.

What if England does something surprising, something other than MAO support-hold SPA? For example, NAf-->WES supported by MAO. That’s about the worst I can imagine, and it’s highly unlikely the bot will do it. But, just to play it out, NAf captures WES, WES is dislodged and retreats to TYS, Tunis captures NAf. In the Autumn Ionian covers Tunis and it’s 3-on-3 in WES. I think I get the upper hand there anyway in Autumn or the following Spring. Alternatively, if England orders SPA-->WES supported by MAO, SPA captures WES, WES retreats to TYS, TUN does not capture NAf. I think eventually I prevail in that scenario, too. GAS captures Spain -- without an English fleet ending up in Portugal – and I probably end up in Spain, Portugal, and MAO. If England plays MAO-->WES, I think all attacks fail, which is the same as if I support-hold. On balance, these risks seem manageable and worthwhile to achieve goals 1 and 3.

As an alternative (or in addition?) to the above moves in the Med, I could order GAS-->BUR supported by PAR. That takes advantage of Germany’s MUN-->TYR move. Burgundy is dislodged, and Germany has a significant challenge defending Belgium, Ruhr, and Munich. England’s North Sea fleet can help, but it can’t help with Belgium and also move to English Channel.

Or, I could forget about defending Piedmont (wasting 2 well-placed units):

GoL-->SPA
MAR-->BUR supported by PAR
GAS-->BRE
CON-->BUL
ION convoy GRE-->APU
TUN-->NAf supported by WES

I kind of like this last set, actually. It’s risky if Germany orders TYR-->PIE, but I think I could deal with that if it happens.

tl;dr - I'm going with the more aggressive and slightly risky moves listed immediately above, with a slight twist: GAS-->SPA and GoL support-hold WES. I have an opportunity to breach MAO this year, maybe. I ought to try for that without delay. If Germany orders TYR-->PIE, I'll have some issues to deal with in Autumn. My bot-sense tells me Germany will use the Tyrolia army against Russia. We'll see. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Pretty, pretty good! Tyrolia went for Venice and bounced, which is ideal. Now the Adriatic fleet stays in Adriatic and can support APU-->VEN in Autumn. England moved N. Sea to Channel, not ideal, but that fleet is an overburdened defender. The really good news: Germany retreated Burgundy to Picardy, leaving me an uncontestable Autumn move from Burgundy to Ruhr -- the gateway to several undefended German SCs. Even if I never get a fleet to MAO, this game is all but over.

[Trigfea63]

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Pretty, pretty good! Tyrolia went for Venice and bounced, which is ideal. Now the Adriatic fleet stays in Adriatic and can support APU-->VEN in Autumn. England moved N. Sea to Channel, not ideal, but that fleet is an overburdened defender. The really good news: Germany retreated Burgundy to Picardy, leaving me an uncontestable Autumn move from Burgundy to Ruhr -- the gateway to several undefended German SCs. Even if I never get a fleet to MAO, this game is all but over.

Despite my initial enthusiasm for the invasion of Ruhr and Central Germany, upon further reflection, I think the better course for Autumn '20 is to focus on the France-Belgium area. The high-level objectives:

1) Over-pressure the defensive capabilities of the English fleet in the Channel and the German army in Picardy.

2) Prevent England from convoying the London army successfully onto the continent, or at least, make England pay a heavy price for that convoy.

The three attacks:

BUR-->BEL
GAS-->BRE supported by PAR
NAf-->MAO supported by WES

Brest and Picardy can each defend one of those attacks, so at least one must succeed. (Assume England doesn't order SPA-->WES to cut support, I think that's unlikely.) And any one of the attacks will be devastating:

--> As discussed earlier in this thread, breaching MAO opens the door to the northern seas, just about guarantees the capture of Brest, Spain, and Portugal, and threatens English home centers.

--> Taking Belgium closes the door to English convoys, captures an interior supply center, and threatens Holland, Kiel, etc.

--> Taking Brest captures a supply center, destroys another English fleet, and sets up a possible eastward march of armies in Brest, Paris, and Burgundy.

The only way England gets its army to Belgium is by convoying with support from the German army Picardy. In that case, the MAO and Brest attacks both succeed.

The remaining moves could be:

GoL-->SPA (I'll gladly trade Marseilles for Spain, with Portugal left empty; Marseilles is kind of a death trap for that English fleet)
APU-->VEN supported by ADR
ION hold

[DougJoe]

You could consider brutally stabbing Turkey and taking over his defensible corner position. Then hope E/F split the remaining SCs roughly evenly so you hold on for a draw. I guess you also have to come up with some external criterion for when you've held on long enough to justify a draw. E/F will probably never stop attacking you, but on the other hand, they will immediately agree to any draw you propose.

I have thought about stabbing Turkey, but I think the best I can do on that front is to get Sev into Ankara... and I'm not sure it's worth it.

Generally, when I play the bots, I have a general policy of trying to pull the "Draw Parachute" as little as possible. I'll vote for a draw if the board really does look locked or the bots fail to make moves that should be obvious that would advance their position for at least a few turns.

I think England in my game is going to play StP S Lvn-Mos, Pru-War. I cannot stop this, and so will play Mos-Lvn, Sil S War-Pru S Sil, Sev-BLA (just to get it out of the way of a retreat), and Vie S Boh...

[DougJoe]

Despite my initial enthusiasm for the invasion of Ruhr and Central Germany, upon further reflection, I think the better course for Autumn '20 is to focus on the France-Belgium area. The high-level objectives:

1) Over-pressure the defensive capabilities of the English fleet in the Channel and the German army in Picardy.

2) Prevent England from convoying the London army successfully onto the continent, or at least, make England pay a heavy price for that convoy.

The three attacks:

BUR-->BEL
GAS-->BRE supported by PAR
NAf-->MAO supported by WES

Brest and Picardy can each defend one of those attacks, so at least one must succeed. (Assume England doesn't order SPA-->WES to cut support, I think that's unlikely.) And any one of the attacks will be devastating:

--> As discussed earlier in this thread, breaching MAO opens the door to the northern seas, just about guarantees the capture of Brest, Spain, and Portugal, and threatens English home centers.

--> Taking Belgium closes the door to English convoys, captures an interior supply center, and threatens Holland, Kiel, etc.

--> Taking Brest captures a supply center, destroys another English fleet, and sets up a possible eastward march of armies in Brest, Paris, and Burgundy.

The only way England gets its army to Belgium is by convoying with support from the German army Picardy. In that case, the MAO and Brest attacks both succeed.

The remaining moves could be:

GoL-->SPA (I'll gladly trade Marseilles for Spain, with Portugal left empty; Marseilles is kind of a death trap for that English fleet)
APU-->VEN supported by ADR
ION hold

This seems like an interesting approach.

[DougJoe]

I have thought about stabbing Turkey, but I think the best I can do on that front is to get Sev into Ankara... and I'm not sure it's worth it.

Generally, when I play the bots, I have a general policy of trying to pull the "Draw Parachute" as little as possible. I'll vote for a draw if the board really does look locked or the bots fail to make moves that should be obvious that would advance their position for at least a few turns.

I think England in my game is going to play StP S Lvn-Mos, Pru-War. I cannot stop this, and so will play Mos-Lvn, Sil S War-Pru S Sil, Sev-BLA (just to get it out of the way of a retreat), and Vie S Boh...

S08 results: I was wrong about England... he went for Warsaw, not Moscow, and I destroyed his army in Prussia. He did convoy Lon-Den, not what I was hoping for, but, oh well. Turkey didn't support hold Tri and lost it because I didn't move Vie or Boh into Tyo. Maybe that was my mistake to not do the obvious - I thought Turkey would use Ser to support hold Tri, but he used it to try to backfill Alb (which tried and failed to keep France out of ADR)... and, *of course* Turkey retreated to Budapest.

F08 thoughts for now: Turkey's best chance of getting Trieste back (I think) is to play Alb->ADR, Ser S Bud-Tri (or maybe Bud S Ser-Tri). In either case, he needs me to hit Tyo somehow to cut support. I can do that with one unit (Vie) or I can go full out and play Sil-Mun, Boh S Vie-Tyo. If both Tyo and Tri were dislodged, there's the possibility that France gets his wires crossed and retreats both to Venice...

...but Sil being used for that means it can't help against England, and it also would have been nice to at least *try* for Berlin. If I can't do that and Sil is occupied, then it's either Pru-Lvn to cut potential support or Pru-War to cover...

...and then, to Ank or not to Ank? That is the question.

[DougJoe]

F08 thoughts for now: Turkey's best chance of getting Trieste back (I think) is to play Alb->ADR, Ser S Bud-Tri (or maybe Bud S Ser-Tri). In either case, he needs me to hit Tyo somehow to cut support. I can do that with one unit (Vie) or I can go full out and play Sil-Mun, Boh S Vie-Tyo. If both Tyo and Tri were dislodged, there's the possibility that France gets his wires crossed and retreats both to Venice...

...but Sil being used for that means it can't help against England, and it also would have been nice to at least *try* for Berlin. If I can't do that and Sil is occupied, then it's either Pru-Lvn to cut potential support or Pru-War to cover...

...and then, to Ank or not to Ank? That is the question.

Well, couldn't have gotten that one any more wrong if I tried.

Turkey did attack Trieste (although from Serbia, not Budapest like I wanted) but he didn't move Alb-ADR. I could have used Boh to tap Tyo, but I probably would have used Vie to support Bud-Tri, not Ser-Tri and it wouldn't have mattered.

Had I tried for Berlin, I would have gotten it. England did the smart thing and moved Stp S Lvn-Mos, so I lost Mos and Bud for this year... and I didn't snipe Ank, so that means I'm down two, and which two units to remove? I'm leaning towards Tyo and Boh right now.

[DougJoe]

Well, couldn't have gotten that one any more wrong if I tried.

Turkey did attack Trieste (although from Serbia, not Budapest like I wanted) but he didn't move Alb-ADR. I could have used Boh to tap Tyo, but I probably would have used Vie to support Bud-Tri, not Ser-Tri and it wouldn't have mattered.

Had I tried for Berlin, I would have gotten it. England did the smart thing and moved Stp S Lvn-Mos, so I lost Mos and Bud for this year... and I didn't snipe Ank, so that means I'm down two, and which two units to remove? I'm leaning towards Tyo and Boh right now.

Some wild flailing before the end:
W08: I did get rid of Tyo and Boh to focus on England.
S09: I decide that I'm in a "what the hell" mood and go for Berlin. I get it. Turkey moves into Vie and Rum.
F/W09: I decide to support hold Berlin instead of moving Sil-War. I force Turkey out of Rum. Lose a unit because of Vienna, decide to pull Sev. Probably not the best idea, but oh well at this point.
S10: I get into Munich, don't lose Berlin right away. I lose Sev and will lose Rum. Honestly, I probably should have pulled backwards in 1909 but at this point I just didn't care and if by some chance I get a unit past the lines...
F10: I hold Munich.
S11: I move into Kiel, but...
F11: ...that's where it ends, I try to go to Holland but get blocked an England doesn't make any mistakes.

So, eliminated as Russia in game 7. Looking back on it, I think the two key moments were that I probably should have realized that I needed to hitch my wagon to Germany in F02 and I should have figured that I could tap Serbia in S03 to help Turkey take Greece a year earlier than he did. England being slowed down would have helped and Austria dying faster (so that I could get Vie or Bud faster) would have helped. I think.

*sigh*

So for the 7 games that I've documented in this thread, it's 5 solos, a survival, and a defeat. Actually, that's a pretty good round for me as far as things go.

[Trigfea63]

So, eliminated as Russia in game 7. Looking back on it, I think the two key moments were that I probably should have realized that I needed to hitch my wagon to Germany in F02 and I should have figured that I could tap Serbia in S03 to help Turkey take Greece a year earlier than he did. England being slowed down would have helped and Austria dying faster (so that I could get Vie or Bud faster) would have helped. I think.

*sigh*

So for the 7 games that I've documented in this thread, it's 5 solos, a survival, and a defeat. Actually, that's a pretty good round for me as far as things go.

I don't see how you could have "hitched your wagon" to Germany in F02. You had no units to spare. You could have diverted units north to prop up Germany and stall England, but then you wouldn't have made any progress against Austria. Supporting Turkey into Serbia in S02 might have been good. It's very easy to say things like that with 20/20 hindsight and knowing all the other players' moves, of course.

Is Russia your worst solo percentage country vs. the bots?

[Trigfea63]

It's time to enter the "triple threat" orders I laid out in post # 467. It's a bit of a long post to copy the whole thing in here. The basic idea is, enemy strongholds in Brest, MAO, and Belgium are being defended by only 2 units: the English fleet in Brest, and the German army in Picardy. If I attack all three, one of the attacks must (well, almost must) succeed. My hope is, both defenders choose to defend Brest, a distinct possibility. Here goes (my heart rate jumps every time I ready up orders in this game):

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Pretty interesting. Both defenders chose to defend Belgium, and I got into MAO and Brest. I have a build. England also has a build despite being -1 SC (since I destroyed 2 English fleets). I am thinking to build another fleet, and push Ionian Sea into the action zone around MAO, Spain, and Portugal. I'm also debating whether to sacrifice position in France if it allows me to capture Portugal and Spain in 1921 and destroy the most valuable English fleet on the board:

MAO-->POR
GoL-->SPA supported by WES (or vice versa?)
BUR-->MAR (to block Spain's retreat, maybe its only retreat)

It would be backtracking from MAO to Portugal, though. That feels weak. There are also interesting options around Picardy:

BRE-->PIC supported by PAR
BUR-->BEL

The Picardy army could be destroyed and that might open up Belgium to a capture in the Autumn. Decisions, decisions. More to follow in a day or two.

[DougJoe]

I don't see how you could have "hitched your wagon" to Germany in F02. You had no units to spare. You could have diverted units north to prop up Germany and stall England, but then you wouldn't have made any progress against Austria. Supporting Turkey into Serbia in S02 might have been good. It's very easy to say things like that with 20/20 hindsight and knowing all the other players' moves, of course.

Is Russia your worst solo percentage country vs. the bots?

As far as Germany goes, I was thinking specifically of Fin S BAL-Swe in F02 which would have allowed Germany to build another unit that year... and he might have been able to slow England down a little bit which would have given me time. The "what do I do with Finland" that turn was one of the more interesting decisions during the game, and I don't think I thought it through well enough. If I then tap Serbia so Turkey gets Greece earlier, that means Austria dies faster and maybe that gets me units to play with in the north and then maybe E/F doesn't swarm things as much. I've done G/R alliances in bot games as Russia before, they're kind of fun when they work.

My solo % with Russia is currently ~40%, which puts it right in the middle of the pack.

Code: Select all

52	Wins	Win %
Austria	10	19.23%
England	15	28.85%
Germany	16	30.77%
Russia	21	40.38%
France	24	46.15%
Italy	29	55.77%
Turkey	37	71.15%
Total	152	41.76%

Your game is looking good!

[Trigfea63]

I don't see how you could have "hitched your wagon" to Germany in F02. You had no units to spare. You could have diverted units north to prop up Germany and stall England, but then you wouldn't have made any progress against Austria. Supporting Turkey into Serbia in S02 might have been good. It's very easy to say things like that with 20/20 hindsight and knowing all the other players' moves, of course.

Is Russia your worst solo percentage country vs. the bots?

As far as Germany goes, I was thinking specifically of Fin S BAL-Swe in F02 which would have allowed Germany to build another unit that year... and he might have been able to slow England down a little bit which would have given me time. The "what do I do with Finland" that turn was one of the more interesting decisions during the game, and I don't think I thought it through well enough. If I then tap Serbia so Turkey gets Greece earlier, that means Austria dies faster and maybe that gets me units to play with in the north and then maybe E/F doesn't swarm things as much. I've done G/R alliances in bot games as Russia before, they're kind of fun when they work.

My solo % with Russia is currently ~40%, which puts it right in the middle of the pack.

Code: Select all

52	Wins	Win %
Austria	10	19.23%
England	15	28.85%
Germany	16	30.77%
Russia	21	40.38%
France	24	46.15%
Italy	29	55.77%
Turkey	37	71.15%
Total	152	41.76%

Your game is looking good!

Thanks!

Interesting thought on supporting Germany into Sweden. I doubt I would have seen that at the time, to be honest ... In S02 England went to Skaggerak but also to English Channel. (As an aside, England's moves in Scandinavia (https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=456386) in S02 and F02 were pretty clever.) Anyway, in S02 Germany took Belgium and was poised with 2 fleets on Sweden. It didn't particularly look like he would need Russian help, although I guess you could have given him the support to signal friendship. You might have inferred from the English move to Skaggerak that England would go after Germany, but it wasn't so obvious. E/F were certainly not cooperating yet, and France was looking weak. England actually took a poke at Brest in F02 (in addition to taking Denmark).

As I play more games, my country win %s are moving closer to yours. Italy is my best now at 55.6% (5/9) after a streak of 4 straight Italy solos. Turkey will increase to 57.1% (4/7) if I can finish off the solo in my game on this thread, as now seems likely. Russia was once my best at 75% (3/4) but is about to drop to 42.9% (3/7) unless I can pull a rabbit out of a hat in another running game (https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=457369). Of course my sample sizes are still pretty small. (You can see from the pace of my moves on this thread why I don't finish more games!)

[DougJoe]

As I play more games, my country win %s are moving closer to yours. Italy is my best now at 55.6% (5/9) after a streak of 4 straight Italy solos. Turkey will increase to 57.1% (4/7) if I can finish off the solo in my game on this thread, as now seems likely. Russia was once my best at 75% (3/4) but is about to drop to 42.9% (3/7) unless I can pull a rabbit out of a hat in another running game (https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=457369). Of course my sample sizes are still pretty small. (You can see from the pace of my moves on this thread why I don't finish more games!)

Your Russia game looks interesting- I think there's still a lot of game to be played there.

Sometimes I just get in a groove and can play a lot of turns at once.

[Trigfea63]

* * * I am thinking to build another fleet, and push Ionian Sea into the action zone around MAO, Spain, and Portugal. I'm also debating whether to sacrifice position in France if it allows me to capture Portugal and Spain in 1921 and destroy the most valuable English fleet on the board:

MAO-->POR
GoL-->SPA supported by WES (or vice versa?)
BUR-->MAR (to block Spain's retreat, maybe its only retreat)

It would be backtracking from MAO to Portugal, though. That feels weak. There are also interesting options around Picardy:

BRE-->PIC supported by PAR
BUR-->BEL

The Picardy army could be destroyed and that might open up Belgium to a capture in the Autumn. Decisions, decisions. More to follow in a day or two.

I built the fleet, in Smyrna. Not surprisingly, England built a fleet in Liverpool. I'm going with Plan B, the attack on the Picardy army, and generally continuing to push ahead with my fleets. I might have gone for Plan A, destroying the English fleet in Spain -- if I were more certain I would destroy it. With Plan A, the fleet is destroyed only if England moves its Irish Sea (or Channel) fleet to MAO this turn. That seems likely. The trouble is, if England doesn't move Irish to MAO, I would end up with capturing Spain and Portugal, but the English fleet in Spain would not be destroyed. It would retreat to the empty MAO, and would have 3 supports backing it up in Channel, Irish, and North Atlantic. And no Turkish fleets behind the English line. That's a potential stalemate. Having spent all this energy breaking into MAO, I think it's best I hold onto it, or else advance that fleet to Brest or Channel, or retreat it to Gascony if it's dislodged (i.e., don't send it back to Portugal).

Other moves: MAO moves to Brest, and WES moves to MAO. GoL moves to Spain, to cut support and also to occupy Spain if the English fleet moves to Portugal or Marseilles. Venice will advance to Piedmont. That leaves Venice open, but just for 1 turn until the Greece army can convoy over. My hunch is, Germany won't attack Venice with a Turkish army occupying it. If I'm wrong about that, I could have some major issues in Italy. The Greece army will move to Albania so that it can convoy through Adriatic, and Ionian will advance to Tunis.

It's a riskier order set, but also more fun ... here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Great result in France, not so great in MAO. I could well get locked out of MAO from here on out. But I've got the fleet in Brest, so Belgium and Spain are mine for the taking in the Autumn. That's probably what I'm going to do, but I'll take a half a day to think it over:

BUR-->BEL supported by PIC
PAR-->BUR (to keep the Munich army out)
GoL-->SPA supported by WES (or vice versa?)
BRE-->MAO (to cut support)
PIE-->MAR

My armies in France are poised for a major move through the lowlands and Germany. It really can't be stopped, unless England and/or Germany pull units back from the current fronts. In which case, I break through somewhere else. I'm in very good shape here.

[Scmoo472]

* * * I am thinking to build another fleet, and push Ionian Sea into the action zone around MAO, Spain, and Portugal. I'm also debating whether to sacrifice position in France if it allows me to capture Portugal and Spain in 1921 and destroy the most valuable English fleet on the board:

MAO-->POR
GoL-->SPA supported by WES (or vice versa?)
BUR-->MAR (to block Spain's retreat, maybe its only retreat)

It would be backtracking from MAO to Portugal, though. That feels weak. There are also interesting options around Picardy:

BRE-->PIC supported by PAR
BUR-->BEL

The Picardy army could be destroyed and that might open up Belgium to a capture in the Autumn. Decisions, decisions. More to follow in a day or two.

I built the fleet, in Smyrna. Not surprisingly, England built a fleet in Liverpool. I'm going with Plan B, the attack on the Picardy army, and generally continuing to push ahead with my fleets. I might have gone for Plan A, destroying the English fleet in Spain -- if I were more certain I would destroy it. With Plan A, the fleet is destroyed only if England moves its Irish Sea (or Channel) fleet to MAO this turn. That seems likely. The trouble is, if England doesn't move Irish to MAO, I would end up with capturing Spain and Portugal, but the English fleet in Spain would not be destroyed. It would retreat to the empty MAO, and would have 3 supports backing it up in Channel, Irish, and North Atlantic. And no Turkish fleets behind the English line. That's a potential stalemate. Having spent all this energy breaking into MAO, I think it's best I hold onto it, or else advance that fleet to Brest or Channel, or retreat it to Gascony if it's dislodged (i.e., don't send it back to Portugal).

Other moves: MAO moves to Brest, and WES moves to MAO. GoL moves to Spain, to cut support and also to occupy Spain if the English fleet moves to Portugal or Marseilles. Venice will advance to Piedmont. That leaves Venice open, but just for 1 turn until the Greece army can convoy over. My hunch is, Germany won't attack Venice with a Turkish army occupying it. If I'm wrong about that, I could have some major issues in Italy. The Greece army will move to Albania so that it can convoy through Adriatic, and Ionian will advance to Tunis.

It's a riskier order set, but also more fun ... here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Great result in France, not so great in MAO. I could well get locked out of MAO from here on out. But I've got the fleet in Brest, so Belgium and Spain are mine for the taking in the Autumn. That's probably what I'm going to do, but I'll take a half a day to think it over:

BUR-->BEL supported by PIC
PAR-->BUR (to keep the Munich army out)
GoL-->SPA supported by WES (or vice versa?)
BRE-->MAO (to cut support)
PIE-->MAR

My armies in France are poised for a major move through the lowlands and Germany. It really can't be stopped, unless England and/or Germany pull units back from the current fronts. In which case, I break through somewhere else. I'm in very good shape here.

Curiosity might get me killed in this situation, but I think I prefer Pic - Bel w/ Burgundy supporting, Paris supports Brest to hold, and you hold off on Spain until you have Tunis to North Africa, and are definitely in Marseilles. That extra army in France will be massive as you'll be able to slide your fleet through Picardy, to Belgium, without sacrificing Brest. (Also possible for the convoy still, which would be pretty brutal to have an army with all that naval support on the mainland. Also the potential to get a Turkish fleet into the North Sea... Thats basically unchartered water for the Ottomans! (

[Trigfea63]

Curiosity might get me killed in this situation, but I think I prefer Pic - Bel w/ Burgundy supporting, Paris supports Brest to hold, and you hold off on Spain until you have Tunis to North Africa, and are definitely in Marseilles. That extra army in France will be massive as you'll be able to slide your fleet through Picardy, to Belgium, without sacrificing Brest. (Also possible for the convoy still, which would be pretty brutal to have an army with all that naval support on the mainland. Also the potential to get a Turkish fleet into the North Sea... Thats basically unchartered water for the Ottomans! (

Interesting. I agree, PIC-->BEL is better. It's not an assured move, because Germany will likely cut Burgundy's support from Munich, and England's Channel fleet can cover Belgium. I'm thinking rather than the useless support, Burgundy moves to Ruhr and Paris moves to Burgundy to bounce Munich. It potentially sacrifices Brest, but only if I get Belgium and Spain. Holland falls in 1922, and perhaps Kiel as well. Brest can retreat to Gascony if it's dislodged, or Picardy if we're looking for the Ottoman North Sea adventure . I'm not sure I see the rationale for waiting to take Spain ... Marseilles will be covered (PIE-->MAR). Lots of ways to skin the cat, I suppose.