webdiplomacy.net

I have been toying with the idea of creating an online version of the boardgame "Junta", which I love like Diplomacy but which for the same reasons I can't play in real life because I don't find people to play it with over the board (due to its length and complexity and all that...). I have been learning the ropes of general web development (html, javascript...) for almost two months now and I am slowly getting to the point were I can start using my acquired skills (rudimentary as they might still be at the moment) to start coding the game for real.

Like Diplomacy, it is an old game (created in 1979) but although the current publishing rights holders have made a reprint in the 2010s the game is again no longer sold. My question is, can I just create a website where I propose an online version of a physical boardgame (that exists and someone owns)? Does someone know if websites like PlayDiplomacy and WebDiplomacy similarly had to secure approval of the rights holders of the boardgame Diplomacy before launching?

I think making an online version of a game is legal as long as it isn't patented and you don't use copyrighted material without permission.

Caligula45 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 27, 2024 8:41 pm

I have been learning the ropes of general web development (html, javascript...)

TS seems to be slowly replacing JS in the open source community: TS graph may be almost invisible against a bright background, but try something in the chart's context menu. Here's also something to read about the merits of TS:

Yes I had heard about Typescript but it seems that its main advantage over JavaScript is just to make coding more confortable (rather than offering some powerful functionalities that would be lacking in JavaScript). As I didn't know JavaScript and since I would need to know it anyway before even starting to learn Typescript, I figured I would stick with learning just JavaScript for the time being.

My understanding is that they move to TS mainly for better error detection mechanics. It could benefit you depending on the complexity of what you are going to do (and coding an online game is hardly trivial).

Go hard. What your trying to do is not easy.

I can't contribute much to this topic, other than approving that Junta is indeed a fun game (which I only played once halfway through because of the described problems), but I am very interested how the development of such a web-game works. Is there maybe some documentation how to make something like this, i.e. how the people from web diplomacy have done it?

Klaus klauts wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:15 pm

I can't contribute much to this topic, other than approving that Junta is indeed a fun game (which I only played once halfway through because of the described problems), but I am very interested how the development of such a web-game works. Is there maybe some documentation how to make something like this, i.e. how the people from web diplomacy have done it?

I have no experience with it myself, but found the DATC interesting:
https://webdiplomacy.net/doc/DATC_v3_0.html

Klaus klauts wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 29, 2024 2:15 pm

I can't contribute much to this topic, other than approving that Junta is indeed a fun game (which I only played once halfway through because of the described problems), but I am very interested how the development of such a web-game works. Is there maybe some documentation how to make something like this, i.e. how the people from web diplomacy have done it?

Perhaps Caligula45 will be kind enough to inform us from time to time.

It looks like someone is already attempting to build an online version, which appears to be in closed Beta:

https://www.junta-online.net/

You can use something Vassal to make a module. Not sure, but that might be easier than coding everything yourself. Of course, there are probably unforeseen limitations that will bite you along the way. You can see the wide library of modules they already have here.

https://vassalengine.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Modules&from=J

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 30, 2024 1:27 pm

It looks like someone is already attempting to build an online version, which appears to be in closed Beta:

https://www.junta-online.net/

This might diminish Caligula's motivation, but coding is a useful skill anyway.

On the bright side we might get to try out junta sooner. So far I have only read about it, but it sounds so realistic that it is probably banned somewhere.

I've played the board game. It takes a whole afternoon to play but is very good fun.

I love Junta! too.
However, I don't want to discourage you, but building an online version of a board game is a very complex task, and a thorough knowledge of HTML/CSS/JS is just one of the many required skills.
If you google "full stack development" you will find lots of info, for instance gives a good idea of what you will need.
That said, Kestas developed "phpdiplomacy" (the ancestor of webDip) alone, so yes, it can be done, and it can be a lot of fun too. So, good luck!

Thank you all for the support and the information provided!

Yeah I know about the https://www.junta-online.net/ website. It has been in this state since I first found it a year and a half ago so I'm not sure it's being actively developed. It's because I was starting to lose patience waiting for that website to finish that I came upon the idea to just try it myself.

From what I gathered so far it indeed seems very complicated to develop a website and will for sure take time, especially since I'm new to this. But I'm doing bit per bit and so far I have been quite motivated to carry on. I'll certainly keep you appraised if and when I finish!

Go for it! The best way to learn is by making something you want yourself; doing webDip taught me a lot that you don't learn in uni. (It helps with job applications to show hobby software also)


Regarding the language JS/TS are good choices; the point and click UI was written in TS by the FAIR team, you can check the code out here:
https://github.com/kestasjk/webDiplomacy/ (The TS map UI is under beta-src)

Caligula45 wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:45 pm

Yes I had heard about Typescript but it seems that its main advantage over JavaScript is just to make coding more confortable (rather than offering some powerful functionalities that would be lacking in JavaScript). As I didn't know JavaScript and since I would need to know it anyway before even starting to learn Typescript, I figured I would stick with learning just JavaScript for the time being.

TypeScript is JavaScript with proper type safety. It gets "compiled" to JavaScript, like this: https://webdiplomacy.net/beta/static/js/main.2736af34.js
Type-safe is more restrictive, but it means less bugs, easier troubleshooting, your IDE can auto-complete, rename things, show where things are used, jump to definitions, warn/error if you're doing something wrong.

I don't think you need to learn JS first, and you might learn some bad habits, but the main thing is getting started.

If I were redoing webDip I'd use:
- TypeScript with React to render the screens, and draw the map to a <canvas>
- TypeScript on node.js for server logic
- PostgreSQL for the DB
- VS Code with GitHub+Copilot for development. (Copilot is really good at TypeScript)

Caligula45 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 27, 2024 8:41 pm

My question is, can I just create a website where I propose an online version of a physical boardgame (that exists and someone owns)? Does someone know if websites like PlayDiplomacy and WebDiplomacy similarly had to secure approval of the rights holders of the boardgame Diplomacy before launching?

If you call it Junta and that's a trademarked name, or something that could reasonably be confused with a trademark, or you use copyrighted graphics / imagery, then legally yes you would need approval. (And you won't get it ;p )
In practice unless you're making lots doing it commercially board-game companies know hobby sites grow their customer base / community, so I wouldn't worry.

You can't use their name if it's trademarked, so you might need to be inventive (Scrabble -> Scrabulous -> Words with friends, Diplomacy -> Backstabbr / Conspiracy, etc)
Don't use their graphics / boards / media, those are copyrighted, but you can use/make your own board that looks and works the same.
The rules are fine to copy into your own rulebook; you can't copyright a method, so any game's rules can be copied.


Good luck!

Thanks for the input!