Turkey as the Ottoman Empire

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Has anyone ever wondered why a game based on 1901 Europe only as Austria as Austria instead of Austria-Hungary and we have turkey as turkey and not the Ottoman Empire? We even have Constantinople as opposed to Istanbul

[Pengwinja]

In all rulebooks I’ve seen, it says Austria-Hungary, It’s just shorter to put Austria. I don’t know about Ottoman Empire, but my bet is because of balancing. They almost always try and give the countries their historically accurate starting territories, shown with all except Ottoman Empire/Turkey.

[Aristocrat]

The map/game isn't strictly based on 1901. If it were, France would control Tunis and North Africa, Russia would control Finland, Turkey would control Albania and Bulgaria would have no south coast, etc.

[CaptainFritz28]

I think it has mostly to do with the fact that a) the game needs to be at least somewhat balanced and b) Turkey is easier to say.

[JECE]

Has anyone ever wondered why a game based on 1901 Europe only as Austria as Austria instead of Austria-Hungary and we have turkey as turkey and not the Ottoman Empire? We even have Constantinople as opposed to Istanbul

As Pengwinja said, the rulebooks refer to "Austria-Hungary (hereafter referred to as Austria)", and "Austria-Hungary" is written in full on the game boards.

Historically speaking, "Turkey" is fine. "Ottoman Empire" is more precise, but the use of "Turkey" is not a big issue in my opinion.

"England", on the other hand, is just plain incorrect. It should be "Great Britain" or "United Kingdom".

[Hominidae]

The map/game isn't strictly based on 1901. If it were, France would control Tunis and North Africa, Russia would control Finland, Turkey would control Albania and Bulgaria would have no south coast, etc.

Russia does control Finland in the game, in the same way that France controls Picardy. Of course, it's not a supply center, so what country it's part of is irrelevant to the game.

You are correct on the rest, although aside from Africa the map seems to be accurate for 1914 (not 1901). I think "Turkey" was a common name for the Ottoman Empire. See also "England" instead of "Britain" or "United Kingdom".

[JECE]

The map/game isn't strictly based on 1901. If it were, France would control Tunis and North Africa, Russia would control Finland, Turkey would control Albania and Bulgaria would have no south coast, etc.

The year 1901 is used because it is easier to count the number of elapsed years in a game with a 1901 start. The map is based on on the borders at the start of the Great War (1914), and is mostly correct with only small exceptions like a neutral Tunis and the absence of Montenegro. Turkey lost the vast majority of its Balkan territories, like Albania and southern Bulgaria, in the Balkan Wars. As to "Russia would control Finland," I'm not sure what you're on about: Finland is drawn as part of Russia in all game boards of Diplomacy.

Incidentally, I highly recommend the variant 1900:
https://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Online/variants/1900-061119.pdf

It's available to play on our sister site, vDiplomacy:
https://vdiplomacy.net/variants.php?variantID=1900

[Aristocrat]

Hmm I must be remembering some other interface that doesn't color FIN as part of Russia, but regardless, yeah WebDip and the official board have it that way.

[Pengwinja]

Officially, It should be called United Kingdom. England is a country in the United Kingdom, and Great Britain is a Geographical term for the islands.

[CaptainFritz28]

Great Britain was once the country, before Ireland was a part of it, but yeah.

[Pengwinja]

Great Britain was once the country, before Ireland was a part of it, but yeah.

Well, what Great Britain includes is a little shaky, even in official political documents. Mainly confusion about if it includes the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. Looked up the Great Britain being the country, full name is technically “Kingdom of Great Britain”, but it only lasted from 1705-1800. Kingdom actually contained some land that would be considered a part of modern day Germany.

[Jamiet99uk]

Great Britain is the big island to the right of the island of Ireland.

The "Kingdom of Great Britain" only existed from 1707 until 1800.

At the time the game starts, "United Kingdom" would be correct. "England" is explicitly, particularly wrong, and that has always annoyed me.

[CaptainFritz28]

Calling it England is like calling it Scotland or Wales, but it's quicker to type than Great Britain or the United Kingdom, and everyone knows what you mean in a game of Diplomacy.

Re: the Kingdom of Great Britain, I realize that it was only around for the 18th century, I'm just pointing out that it was once the name of the country. I only know this (and the fact that the flag changed when it became the United Kingdom, due to Ireland's addition) because the United States did not rebel from the United Kingdom, but Napoleon did not fight Great Britain.

Also, the geographical name for the United Kingdom's home islands is not Great Britain but the British Isles.

[Hominidae]

Yeah, England is wrong, but Wales was compensated by being given extra territory, and Scotland was compensated by Edinburgh being an SC.

[JECE]

Also, the geographical name for the United Kingdom's home islands is not Great Britain but the British Isles.

Try to tell that to the Irish! ;-)