What is Morality?

[Wusti]

By mixed economy, I think those of us who believe it us most moral are not necessarily referring to its use currently, as much as its idea of being neither extreme of full capitalist or full socialist.

I believe that the government has a place in regulating the economy, but that that place is very limited, and should be restricted to the goal of ensuring that monopolies do not form, or that enterprising new businesses can grow easily in the face of such monopolies to create competition.

The best economy is one in which competition is necessary to ensure survival, meaning that each business works as hard as possible and does everything in their power to ensure quality of their products. The government owning businesses is just a monopoly, and unfettered capitalism allows for monopolies, so a mixed, albeit mostly free, market is the best.

Monopoly formation is not the only evil of a lightly regulated economy such as USA. The lack of care delivered to large portions of the populace, as evidenced by a tiny spend on welfare programs, the lack of universal entitlement to healthcare, the disparity of opportunity between socio-economic groups, and plenty of other ills.

Aside from the USA's archaic gun laws, these ills directly to the massive incarceration rates and crime rates evidenced across your society. I would go as far as to say that the USA is the poster-boy for increased government intervention.

[CaptainFritz28]

By mixed economy, I think those of us who believe it us most moral are not necessarily referring to its use currently, as much as its idea of being neither extreme of full capitalist or full socialist.

I believe that the government has a place in regulating the economy, but that that place is very limited, and should be restricted to the goal of ensuring that monopolies do not form, or that enterprising new businesses can grow easily in the face of such monopolies to create competition.

The best economy is one in which competition is necessary to ensure survival, meaning that each business works as hard as possible and does everything in their power to ensure quality of their products. The government owning businesses is just a monopoly, and unfettered capitalism allows for monopolies, so a mixed, albeit mostly free, market is the best.

Monopoly formation is not the only evil of a lightly regulated economy such as USA. The lack of care delivered to large portions of the populace, as evidenced by a tiny spend on welfare programs, the lack of universal entitlement to healthcare, the disparity of opportunity between socio-economic groups, and plenty of other ills.

Aside from the USA's archaic gun laws, these ills directly to the massive incarceration rates and crime rates evidenced across your society. I would go as far as to say that the USA is the poster-boy for increased government intervention.

And I could talk just as extensively of the evils which have occurred due to Canada's regulation of such things. There are far more factors at play attributing to crime than the mixed economy, and as far as healthcare, while I agree that it is far from perfect and that changes should be made, government over-regulation deincentivizes doctors to practice, leading to massive wait times, oftern resulting in death, as we see in Canada.

The trouble is that you attribute every problem with a matter of the economy or policy, when in reality there is far more to it. Every policy is influenced by worldviews, and until the worldview of society can be corrected, any major change will be for the worse.

[Wusti]

And I could talk just as extensively of the evils which have occurred due to Canada's regulation of such things. There are far more factors at play attributing to crime than the mixed economy...

Come on you can't say you can talk extensively about the evils of Canada's ills due to having higher government intervention, and then literally not state a single one, then go on to say there are more factors, then state none again.

Compare USA deaths due to poor healthcare to Canada or Australia's and there simply no comparison even on a per capita basis. If you think there is - please state your source.

Your statement, like many reeks of "belief" or "opinion" as opposed to fact. It is one thing to state an opinion citing facts you rely on to form it, it is quite another to state unsubstantiated opinions and expect people to go with you.

[CaptainFritz28]

And I could talk just as extensively of the evils which have occurred due to Canada's regulation of such things. There are far more factors at play attributing to crime than the mixed economy...

Come on you can't say you can talk extensively about the evils of Canada's ills due to having higher government intervention, and then literally not state a single one, then go on to say there are more factors, then state none again.

Compare USA deaths due to poor healthcare to Canada or Australia's and there simply no comparison even on a per capita basis. If you think there is - please state your source.

Your statement, like many reeks of "belief" or "opinion" as opposed to fact. It is one thing to state an opinion citing facts you rely on to form it, it is quite another to state unsubstantiated opinions and expect people to go with you.

Notably, you have not given a single source for any of the claims you made.

Regardless, you missed my point entirely. The policy matters little so long as the worldview of society is decrepit.

[Wusti]

And I could talk just as extensively of the evils which have occurred due to Canada's regulation of such things. There are far more factors at play attributing to crime than the mixed economy...

Come on you can't say you can talk extensively about the evils of Canada's ills due to having higher government intervention, and then literally not state a single one, then go on to say there are more factors, then state none again.

Compare USA deaths due to poor healthcare to Canada or Australia's and there simply no comparison even on a per capita basis. If you think there is - please state your source.

Your statement, like many reeks of "belief" or "opinion" as opposed to fact. It is one thing to state an opinion citing facts you rely on to form it, it is quite another to state unsubstantiated opinions and expect people to go with you.

Notably, you have not given a single source for any of the claims you made.

Regardless, you missed my point entirely. The policy matters little so long as the worldview of society is decrepit.

Horseshit. Societal worldview as a reason to accept the status quo? God help this generation. I also note you failed to respond to the points I made "NO YOU" is not really a response is it?

[Ferdack]

Monopoly formation is not the only evil of a lightly regulated economy such as USA. The lack of care delivered to large portions of the populace, as evidenced by a tiny spend on welfare programs, the lack of universal entitlement to healthcare, the disparity of opportunity between socio-economic groups, and plenty of other ills.

and as far as healthcare, while I agree that it is far from perfect and that changes should be made, government over-regulation deincentivizes doctors to practice, leading to massive wait times...

You have severely misread Wusti's point, intentionally or unintentionally. Health care is far too expensive/inaccessible for most people in the US, and in this case, regulation means ensuring that costs and means of healthcare are affordable and accessible for the average person. I don't see how you've jumped to the conclusion that this leads to lazy doctors and longer wait times.

The policy matters little so long as the worldview of society is decrepit.

"Worldview" is a rather vague thing, isn't it? Policy, on the other hand, is concrete and produces tangible results, for good or bad. This claim is utter nonsense.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Canadian healthcare works pretty well and most of us prefer it to a US-style system.

Yes, wait times for non-emergency procedures are long and growing, which is a consequence of our choice to ration these services through wait times rather than by willingness/ability to pay. It's a serious issue, but not an unresolvable one. Some provinces do a better job on this front than others. For the poor and unemployed, a long wait list is almost certainly preferable to an unaffordable bill.

There seems to be some confusion about how Canadian healthcare works. Healthcare is publicly funded but, outside of the hospital setting, most health services are provided by private firms (e.g., a doctor's private practice). Medical professionals in Canada have very clear financial incentives to take on as much work as possible and are not characteristically lazy.

Most importantly, Canada's health care system is currently much cheaper than the US system. In 2022, Canada spent 12.2% of GDP on healthcare, while the US spent 17.3%. For less $$$, Canada has longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality, more doctor-patient interactions, etc., than the US. Our system doesn't push as many people into medical debt (though that can still happen). Many issues in Canada's system could probably be resolved with an additional 5% of GDP.

Canada's healthcare system is a prime example of the benefits of a blended system. Private provision preserves the incentives for healthcare professionals to work hard and seek efficiencies in their own practice. Public funding provides healthcare universally, encourages folks to go see their doctors before they develop serious illnesses, and gives the public bargaining power that reduces the cost of medical services and equipment.

Lastly, it's a fairer and more moral system. Healthcare is rationed by need, not ability to pay. Health outcomes are much more equitable across income lines. I suspect that if Jesus set up a healthcare system, it would look more like Canada's and less like the US's lol.