should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

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brainbomb
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should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#1 Post by brainbomb » Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:18 pm

discuss

DarthPorg36
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Re: should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#2 Post by DarthPorg36 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:25 pm

I think that we should provide all the necessary assistance to homeless people in order for them to have shelter, food, and other basic survival necessities, as well as programs to help them find jobs. We should also have a way for people to get to the shelters easily. Ultimately, if they want to stay homeless, as sad as it is, there is likely nothing we can do to change their minds. It's best to let them do what they want, eventually they'll look for shelter, is what I would bet. We should do everything we can to help the homeless, but forcing them to do anything isn't likely to work, nor, barring extreme weather or disaster, something that people should try to do.

Wusti
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Re: should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#3 Post by Wusti » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:06 pm

I quite frankly hate your question.

It is the way the horrible rabid right would phrase it, as a prelude to attacking social security mechanisms.

Homelessness is on the rise globally in developed nations, and can be tied directly to economic rationalists, reaganomics, and the relentless on-going transfer out of the middle classes and into concentrated wealth of the most wealthy, and the 2nd and 3rd world via globalism by the very same people.

Homelessness is rarely if ever an ambition - unless you throw away your home in favour a nomadic lifestyle of the Grey Nomads as an example, but is much more frequently associated with poor mental health (I won't debate whether the mental health issue came first, or as a result of the persistent homeless state because it is not relevant to the question).

If you want to properly discuss the subject, first define home. Could it be an RV you travel around in year after year? I would argue that you could, however even this carries issues around No fixed address, democratic enfranchisement and so on, is a lifestyle choice, and the RV could legitimately be regarded as a home (my aunt has been travelling Australia in a Winnebago for the last 13 years following the sun).

True homelessness is where your housing is forcibly removed and you are incapable of acquiring new housing. Increasingly this is happening in Western countries as available housing stock shrinks in favour of short term over long term rentals (airbnb and the like), creating rental crises at the same time as the cost of owning a home in terms of income multiples has dramatically increased.

As governments are charged with the 6 broad areas of national wellbeing (Social security - which includes security of housing & food, Defense, Education, Law & Order, Healthcare and Infrastructure provisioning), I would say that yes all available support should be provided via policy (social & affordable housing, above-the-poverty-line welfare payments, regulation, progressive taxation, universal 1st world quality healthcare including mental for all) to make sure that all who want housing have the means of obtaining it, and those who make alternative lifestyle choices are supported as well. Just remember that the lifestyle choice element probably account for 1% of the problem.

In a civil society is it unconscionable to leave any of your people behind.
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Jamiet99uk
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Re: should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#4 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:29 pm

Could you explain the context for this question?

Octavious
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Re: should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#5 Post by Octavious » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:55 am

It's probably worth defining what you mean by homeless (by common definitions used by UK charities in order to make the problem look larger than it really is, I was homeless for quite some time. And it was a pretty great time, for that matter, during which I needed no additional help and was very happy with the situation).

It's also probably worth defining what you mean by help. Do you mean helping them get what they think they want, what you think they need, or what?
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totallyrandomuser
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Re: should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#6 Post by totallyrandomuser » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:50 am

Wusti wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:06 pm
True homelessness is where your housing is forcibly removed and you are incapable of acquiring new housing. Increasingly this is happening in Western countries as available housing stock shrinks in favour of short term over long term rentals (airbnb and the like), creating rental crises at the same time as the cost of owning a home in terms of income multiples has dramatically increased.
As dramatic some situations regarding housing might be, specially during economic crisis, most functional people are able to find solutions in their "support networks" even if they mean a huge downgrade compared to their previous conditions. Most long-term homeless people became so after years of alcohol or drug abuse, alienating everyone in their family and friend circles in the process.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that solving the housing problem might not translate on reducing homelessness as much as would be expected.

Doom427
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Re: should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#7 Post by Doom427 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:53 pm

totallyrandomuser wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:50 am

As dramatic some situations regarding housing might be, specially during economic crisis, most functional people are able to find solutions in their "support networks" even if they mean a huge downgrade compared to their previous conditions. Most long-term homeless people became so after years of alcohol or drug abuse, alienating everyone in their family and friend circles in the process.
Though certainly part of the alienation is because they require assistance from those friends and family, isn't it? After a couple days most people's generosity wears off for casual acquittances, and even close family will eventually get frustrated. (To say nothing of people who have moved away from support networks or don't have family)

totallyrandomuser
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Re: should you help the homeless if they want to stay homeless

#8 Post by totallyrandomuser » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:31 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:53 pm
Though certainly part of the alienation is because they require assistance from those friends and family, isn't it? After a couple days most people's generosity wears off for casual acquittances, and even close family will eventually get frustrated. (To say nothing of people who have moved away from support networks or don't have family)
People who struggle with addiction can do crazy stuff, even to family and close friends, specially when pushed to withdrawal. From lying and stealing to getting extremely violent. It's something very hard to deal with.

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