If I dont go visit my frozen embryo..

[sweetandcool]

I'm really disappointed that my government isn't doing more to protect human life. Everyday billions of my cells die and the government hasn't legislated any protection for my human living cells.

Is this a form of neglect? Should I be jailed for allowing so much human life to die each day?

Speaking of which, since clones are unnatural, should they be allowed human rights? Or can sickos use them for hunting like in the Most Dangerous Game?

[CaptainFritz28]

Behold, a tree.

No, it hasn't germinated yet. Potential tree, like a sperm swimming toward an egg is a potential human life.

Exactly. And since it is not life, destroying it is not murder. But once it meets the egg, the process of life begins. If cared for as necessary, by natural means, a baby will be born. Before conception, no such process has begun.

[CaptainFritz28]

I'm really disappointed that my government isn't doing more to protect human life. Everyday billions of my cells die and the government hasn't legislated any protection for my human living cells.

Is this a form of neglect? Should I be jailed for allowing so much human life to die each day?

Speaking of which, since clones are unnatural, should they be allowed human rights? Or can sickos use them for hunting like in the Most Dangerous Game?

It is not your cells which matter, so I don't see why this needs satirizing.

As for clones, that is a whole separate discussion, one which I have not fully formed my opinion on.

[Jamiet99uk]

An unfertilized human egg or sperm is not a human life. A sperm or egg on its own does not grow into a human. Only the fertilized egg does.

No, it might. Lots don't.

And? That doesn't refute anything he said.

Yes it does because he is assuming every fertilized egg is a person with a right to life, which is fucking nonsense.

[Jamiet99uk]

The argument that life begins at viability is bogus and dishonest. Human life takes a long time to develop and be able to survive on its own. A one year old baby is barely able to feed itself, and then only when provided food. Perhaps a seven-year-old raised on a primitive farm could survive on a desert island, but few urban teenagers could. So not viable?
Human life needs care in the early years. The first nine months needs the mother. After birth, the little human still depends on other humans to survive. Different stages of human life requires different types of care and support. It is still a human life from the moment of conception

You think an embryo at the moment of conception has the same value as me and you, yes?

Why should I not?

You agree with the Alabama Supreme Court?

On many things, no.

You think frozen embryos in an IVF clinic should each have a name and a social security number and the right to vote?

Since when did the right to vote get extended to people under 18? I should've been voting for years!

Also, since when did a social security number and name become the standards for life? Are you saying that an undocumented, unnamed child is not as valuable as everyone else?

I'm asking where the line is being re-drawn because the idea that a fertilized egg is a fully-fledged human with full common law rights is nonsensical.

[Jamiet99uk]

The odds of miscarriage from IVF is actually higher than for a normal means preganancy.

The next step this law will evolve too is prosecuting parents who had IVF that result in miscarriage and jailing them for killing children

There are already people on the American right wing who thing that mothers who have miscarriages are murdererers.

It's completely fucked up. All they care about is controlling women's bodies.

Have you ever actually heard someone say this? Have you spoken with people who believe it? I would be hard pressed to believe that all 20 of the people that hold to this line of thinking live in your neighborhood.

It is literally happening. You think I'm making this up?

Hundreds of women have been jailed for having miscarriages.

Think I'm lying?

[Jamiet99uk]

There will be judicial panels to discuss why the miscarriage happened.
Interrogations about the womans diet and what she did that day.
Lie detector tests to verify if the parents wanted the baby or not.
Capital murder trials for an IVF where the doctor accidentally drops the vial holding the embryo.

They will splay people open in front of a jury to count how many eggs are left.

This is the direction this will go

I wish this was satire but it bloody isn't.

The stupidity of these ignorant fucking bastards is mind boggling.

Same as before.

Making claims about all pro-lifers based on a tiny percentage of a certain radical group of outliers is rather stupid. If we wanted to do that, I could say that because California legalized killing babies 30 days past birth, every pro-choicer is for mass murdering born babies. Obviously that would be untrue, so I don't make that claim.

Where did I make such a general claim?

I am talking about the ruling in Alabama, as is Brainbomb.

[learnedSloth]

I know that it's hard to believe that people like BrianBaru, CaptainFritz28 and learnedSloth are serious (I can hardly believe that they are being serious),

This reminded me of Plato's cave, where people sat ignorant of life outside, beholding shadows.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. -- John 3:20

The good news is basically that God is willing to forgive us, but we must also be ready to forgive others. Jesus stresses it multiple times in the Gospels, even right after teaching the Lord's prayer:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -- Matthew 6:14-15

This leads to the sharp divide that can be observed all over the Bible:

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. -- John 3:21

[kingofthepirates]

Not sure if you've looked around lately, but I don't think crime has really gone down since abortion became a major thing, and you would be hard pressed to prove that there is a correlation directly between those two things statistically.

Slight correct: crime rate has gone down. Of course, actual crime is, at least partially, a function of population, so the actual number of crimes might be increasing (I have not checked this figure though). If it is, imagine what it would be like with a 1960’s rate of crime, or even worse, if crime rate continued along the previous trend and increased!

Firstly regarding crime rates decreasing: this website right here: https://humanprogress.org/trends/violent-crime-rates-are-falling-steeply/
Plenty of other sites corroborate a similar decline, just search on google.

Now, a second issue: the correlation itself. Firstly, I highly, highly recommend you read the chapter itself (link: http://www.psy.vanderbilt.edu/courses/hon182/where_have_all_the_criminals_gone.pdf). The authors explain it better than I ever could. Also, check out this episode of the podcast, which may address some other criticisms that you may have: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/

And a final point to address: While I agree that people, both men and women, should be more responsible, it is still a fact that the legalization of abortion has been helpful to society overall. and while we work towards bettering ourselves and society, we should retain abortion, as both a potential safety net, and a tool to help those who cannot help themselves (that is, those who were forced into pregnancy, either by SA or an abusive partner, or something else). I welcome further discussion on this topic, and look forward to potentially further hilarious situations!

[kingofthepirates]

For some more humorous discussion, Consider this variation of the trolley problem I saw a while back

Don’t pull the lever: an abortion will occur, ending the life of a baby
Pull the lever: your life is turned upside down, your economy collapses, your income dries up, you’re bound to your hiuse for several years, and are forced to love someone you never wanted in the first place.

This poses the question: which is worth more, the effective life of an adult, or the potential life of a newborn.

CaptinFritz, you claim that you do not like to gamble when it comes to human life. Neither do I. As such, following that logic, the choice here, in my eyes, is to NOT gamble on the potential of life, and simply take the effective life of the adult, which is guaranteed to at least bring benefit to both the adult themselves.

[learnedSloth]

For some more humorous discussion, Consider this variation of the trolley problem I saw a while back

Don’t pull the lever: an abortion will occur, ending the life of a baby
Pull the lever: your life is turned upside down, your economy collapses, your income dries up, you’re bound to your hiuse for several years, and are forced to love someone you never wanted in the first place.

Obviously I would pull the lever in that case.

[Jamiet99uk]

I would let the woman carrying the foetus decide whether to pull the lever, and I would respect her choice.

[Jamiet99uk]

One of the weirdest aspects of this whole story is how it has afforded Donald Trump a rare opportunity to look like a reasonable human being with sensible views. Crazy.

[DarthPorg36]

I know that it's hard to believe that people like BrianBaru, CaptainFritz28 and learnedSloth are serious (I can hardly believe that they are being serious),

This reminded me of Plato's cave, where people sat ignorant of life outside, beholding shadows.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. -- John 3:20

The good news is basically that God is willing to forgive us, but we must also be ready to forgive others. Jesus stresses it multiple times in the Gospels, even right after teaching the Lord's prayer:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -- Matthew 6:14-15

This leads to the sharp divide that can be observed all over the Bible:

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. -- John 3:21

Man's breaking out the King James Version of the Bible wow

[brainbomb]

brainbomb: catholic
pro life
father of 2 children, one born with down syndrome.

My heart reeled the day I was told my son would be born with Trisomy 21. There was never even a consideration for having the pregnancy terminated. We wanted our son, and we accepted it.

The Catholic church does not agree with IVF. I dont agree with the church on this one.

IVF is not abortion. IVF is the exact opposite. This is for families that want a child more than anything in this world, and they arent having any luck getting it. IVF is NOT terminating viable fertilized embryos. What it is doing is trying to correct the process for the parents and yes, some of these embryos are lost in the process, but they wouldve also been lost by NOT using IVF.

when the process is over, the parents wanted a child, they provided the clinic eggs from the mother, and sperm from the father. using a sterile environment, the clinic is able to produce the miracle of life that the sperm gets to the egg. this process is utterly meaningless without the vessel to live within, to grow, to develop and to eventually become a child.

Yes those fertilized eggs are would be lives, but they arent viable, and they would not have been in existence without this procedure in the first place.

this process allows parents to have a family. it provides them a way to do this.

I am far from a Republican, but Donald Trump supports IVF, Governer Abbot of Texas supports IVF. The people who think this is murder and dont support IVF are anti family, and clueless about how a baby is born.

[brainbomb]

Don’t pull the lever: an abortion will occur, ending the life of a baby
Pull the lever: your life is turned upside down, your economy collapses, your income dries up, you’re bound to your hiuse for several years, and are forced to love someone you never wanted in the first place.

I think those misfortunes can come whether you pull the lever or not. so clearly choosing to pull it is the right way to go.

[JECE]

I know that it's hard to believe that people like BrianBaru, CaptainFritz28 and learnedSloth are serious (I can hardly believe that they are being serious),

This reminded me of Plato's cave, where people sat ignorant of life outside, beholding shadows.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. -- John 3:20

The good news is basically that God is willing to forgive us, but we must also be ready to forgive others. Jesus stresses it multiple times in the Gospels, even right after teaching the Lord's prayer:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -- Matthew 6:14-15

This leads to the sharp divide that can be observed all over the Bible:

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. -- John 3:21

https://www.elmundotoday.com/2014/04/la-caverna-de-platon-era-en-realidad-un-local-gay-segun-confirman-unos-historiadores/

[JECE]

What did sloth do to be lumped in with that crowd …

I assume Jece is judging Sloth for having a bible verse as his signature.

No, I checked the +1's from the start of the thread.

[JECE]

A fertilized egg is not a baby. A newborn is not a toddler. An adolescent is not an adult. All are human lives, just at different stages of development.

Yes and an even earlier stage of development is the spermatozoa. Should each one of the sperm I produce be given specific legal rights and protections?

An unfertilized human egg or sperm is not a human life. A sperm or egg on its own does not grow into a human. Only the fertilized egg does.

A fertilized egg on its own doesn't grow into a human either.

[Jamiet99uk]

I know that it's hard to believe that people like BrianBaru, CaptainFritz28 and learnedSloth are serious (I can hardly believe that they are being serious),

This reminded me of Plato's cave, where people sat ignorant of life outside, beholding shadows.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. -- John 3:20

The good news is basically that God is willing to forgive us, but we must also be ready to forgive others. Jesus stresses it multiple times in the Gospels, even right after teaching the Lord's prayer:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -- Matthew 6:14-15

This leads to the sharp divide that can be observed all over the Bible:

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. -- John 3:21

https://www.elmundotoday.com/2014/04/la-caverna-de-platon-era-en-realidad-un-local-gay-segun-confirman-unos-historiadores/

What is this?

I don't speak Spanish.