Jesus was a Socialist

[brainbomb]

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things in common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

Acts 4:32-37

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

[brainbomb]

Romans 13:1-7

13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you.
14 You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.

[brainbomb]

Luke 14:13, 14

If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.

[brainbomb]

Matthew 19:21

24 You cannot serve both God and Money.

[brainbomb]

“And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

[brainbomb]

Arguing that Jesus was a socialist can be approached from multiple angles, drawing upon his teachings and actions as depicted in the New Testament:

1. **Concern for the Poor and Marginalized**: Throughout the Gospels, Jesus consistently prioritizes the needs of the poor and marginalized. He speaks out against the wealthy and calls for care and compassion for those in need. This aligns with socialist values of advocating for the downtrodden and addressing systemic inequalities.

2. **Community and Sharing**: Jesus frequently emphasizes the importance of community and communal sharing. In passages such as the feeding of the 5,000 (Matthew 14:13-21), he demonstrates the principle of sharing resources among the crowd. This communal approach to resources echoes socialist ideals of collective ownership and distribution.

3. **Critique of Wealth and Exploitation**: Jesus often criticizes the wealthy and powerful for their exploitation of the poor. He challenges the economic structures of his time, denouncing greed and emphasizing the importance of justice and fairness. This critique of wealth and emphasis on economic justice resonates with socialist critiques of capitalism.

4. **Radical Equality**: Jesus's teachings often challenge social hierarchies and emphasize the equal worth of all individuals. He welcomes and interacts with people from all walks of life, breaking down barriers of class, ethnicity, and social status. This emphasis on radical equality aligns with socialist visions of a classless society.

5. **Concern for Social Justice**: Jesus's ministry is marked by a profound concern for social justice. He advocates for the oppressed, speaks out against injustice, and challenges oppressive systems. His teachings on love, mercy, and compassion are often intertwined with calls for systemic change. These principles resonate with socialist ideals of social and economic justice.

Overall, while the concept of socialism as we understand it today did not exist in Jesus's time, many of his teachings and actions align with socialist values of community, equality, and justice. Interpreting Jesus through a socialist lens can provide insights into his message of love, compassion, and solidarity with the marginalized and oppressed.

[dargorygel]

I rarely engage in religious discussions on this forum... (Come live next door to me, and we'll talk.) But I'd like to respond, my friend, to you with these BRIEF comments... and then I will lurk again.

a) The Bible is best (and only) read and understood in context. It is a book. Not a thing to cut and paste to fit what we want. This is hard. I do not see those verses as having to do with either capitalism or socialism. They have to do what what we should/get to be practically doing.

b) My understanding of Christ (and the rest of the trinity) is that Jesus does not give a whoodle about communism, capitalism, socialism, marble-ism, or any such. It is not that they do not matter. But they are applications, not foundational truths.

c) Christ desires His people to acknowledge HIS sovereignty. He is pretty clear how He expects His people to act under that Sovereignty. We can argue about exactly what it is... but "love" (selfless, unabashed, enthusiastic putting OTHERS first) is the major foundation.

d) People CAN be capitalistic under Christ's Sovereignty and with Love... but we rarely are. We self serve and paint it with a few 'other' thoughts.

e) People CAN be socialist under Christ's Sovereignty and with Love... but we rarely are. We self serve and paint it with a few 'other' thoughts.

f) Self-justification is one of the most common human traits.

I, myself, am an economic conservative, a political libertarian, and operate under the Justice found in forgiveness. But those labels might not mean to me what they mean to you.

The question is, why are we attempting those things, both socialism and capitalism? I find both common capitalism and common socialism self-serving.

It is interesting to actually read Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations and Marx's Manifesto. Both men began by attempting to serve mankind... to urge us to act in love. (Even if they didn't use those words.) It is their heirs that make things complicated and gets us off track.

In my extreme old age, I have moved less and less from trying to change, help, persuade, fix or ANYTHING "the great big world."

I am more and more trying to change, help, persuade, fix, and everything those near to me. Maybe when my neighbors aren't weeping so much, hurting so much, hopeless so much, afraid so much, and lonely so much, I will have time to look in a broader circle.

It is not that the Great Big World doesn't matter. I am glad others are enthused about that work. But my eyes are smaller.

[brainbomb]

Perhaps the title should have been Socialist Ideals are the foundational teachings of Christ.

[brainbomb]

a) The Bible is best (and only) read and understood in context. It is a book. Not a thing to cut and paste to fit what we want. This is hard. I do not see those verses as having to do with either capitalism or socialism. They have to do what what we should/get to be practically doing.

I would add that there are people regularly and often all over this forum copy-cut-and-pasting random bible quotes to shoot down others discussion points. Others who are making very reasonable arguments, if not factually and completely accurate arguments.

So, if you cant beat them, join them.

[BrianBaru]

No, Christ was not a socialist. He wanted us to care for fellow man, not have the government to take our money and have the government care for those the government wants to care for.

Consider 2 Corinthians 9:7: “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, the traveler is considered “good” because he personally helped the stricken man at the roadside with his own time and resources. He didn’t avoid the man and wait for a government check to arrive.

In the Parable of the Talents, Jesus talks about a rich man who entrusts his wealth to three servants. Upon his returns, he finds that one of the servants safeguarded his share by burying it, the second put his share to work and multiplied it, and the third invested his and generated the greatest return of all. Who’s the hero in the parable? The wealth-creating third man. The first one is admonished, and his share is taken and given to the third.

Christ clearly sees the value of Capitalism.

[sweetandcool]

Ephesians 6:5

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

Clearly Jesus was pro slavery (insert heavy sarcasm here).

[CaptainFritz28]

I don't care what political or economic system you use, if you get a community of people together who sincerely follow all the teachings of Christ, I want in. That said, I mean all the teachings of Christ. You can't have socialism but not love your neighbor as yourself, it just doesn't work. So sure, make America socialist. Make the world socialist. But only if it means the world also recognizes the sovereignty and authority of Christ as King and Savior.

If the world were perfect, I wouldn't be against socialism. But it isn't.

[BrianBaru]

Ephesians 6:5

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

Clearly Jesus was pro slavery (insert heavy sarcasm here).

You stopped reading too soon -
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

The civilization of the day was built on slavery. As in Col 3:22-25, Paul does not openly denounce the system; he is content with instilling principles which prepare the way for its abolition. He regards the slave as a person depending on Christ, possessing, then, the key to eternal happiness in Heaven. And Masters must reciprocate with kindness based on the same religious viewpoint. God is the master of masters.

[brainbomb]

Yes, I Am a Communist, and So Too Is Jesus

-Pope Francis

[sweetandcool]

Ephesians 6:5

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

Clearly Jesus was pro slavery (insert heavy sarcasm here).

You stopped reading too soon -
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

The civilization of the day was built on slavery. As in Col 3:22-25, Paul does not openly denounce the system; he is content with instilling principles which prepare the way for its abolition. He regards the slave as a person depending on Christ, possessing, then, the key to eternal happiness in Heaven. And Masters must reciprocate with kindness based on the same religious viewpoint. God is the master of masters.

Yes, the point was to quote the Bible out of context.

I thought for sure it would be pointed out that Jesus did not say this.

Interesting, so you think Jesus viewed slavery as something "wrong" and desired it to one day be abolished?

[Pengwinja]

a) The Bible is best (and only) read and understood in context. It is a book. Not a thing to cut and paste to fit what we want. This is hard. I do not see those verses as having to do with either capitalism or socialism. They have to do what what we should/get to be practically doing.

I would add that there are people regularly and often all over this forum copy-cut-and-pasting random bible quotes to shoot down others discussion points. Others who are making very reasonable arguments, if not factually and completely accurate arguments.

So, if you cant beat them, join them.

You can’t beat an idiot in an argument, that doesn’t mean to become an idiot.

[CaptainFritz28]

Yes, I Am a Communist, and So Too Is Jesus

-Pope Francis

Not gonna lie I take what the pope says very lightly. The Bible is pretty clear that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ, but the pope has stated things in direct opposition to that. There's a pretty good reason that there was a whole reformation thing, and I've got some pretty good reasons to be on the protestant side of it.

[JECE]

No, Christ was not a socialist. He wanted us to care for fellow man, not have the government to take our money and have the government care for those the government wants to care for.

Consider 2 Corinthians 9:7: “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, the traveler is considered “good” because he personally helped the stricken man at the roadside with his own time and resources. He didn’t avoid the man and wait for a government check to arrive.

Government is merely an expression of the people's will. It's fascinating to me how ingrained the nonsensical retort disparaging 'government' has become every time somebody brings up socialism. Do we want to care for our fellow 'man'? If so, we should band together as a society and make it happen. Othering 'government' as something foreign (happening to us) severely limits the tools that we have at our disposal to make our society a better, fairer and more just place to live. Only a libertarian extremist would complain about how 'government only builds roads for those the government wants to build roads for'. A true Good Samaritan should want to make sure that nobody falls through the cracks of a society's generosity (rather than futilely trying to patch the cracks).

[CaptainFritz28]

a) The Bible is best (and only) read and understood in context. It is a book. Not a thing to cut and paste to fit what we want. This is hard. I do not see those verses as having to do with either capitalism or socialism. They have to do what what we should/get to be practically doing.

I would add that there are people regularly and often all over this forum copy-cut-and-pasting random bible quotes to shoot down others discussion points. Others who are making very reasonable arguments, if not factually and completely accurate arguments.

So, if you cant beat them, join them.

While I disagree with your conclusion, I agree that there are many here who have done exactly what you describe.

If you see me doing so, please point it out to me.

[CaptainFritz28]

No, Christ was not a socialist. He wanted us to care for fellow man, not have the government to take our money and have the government care for those the government wants to care for.

Consider 2 Corinthians 9:7: “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, the traveler is considered “good” because he personally helped the stricken man at the roadside with his own time and resources. He didn’t avoid the man and wait for a government check to arrive.

Government is merely an expression of the people's will. It's fascinating to me how ingrained the nonsensical retort disparaging 'government' has become every time somebody brings up socialism. Do we want to care for our fellow 'man'? If so, we should band together as a society and make it happen. Othering 'government' as something foreign (happening to us) severely limits the tools that we have at our disposal to make our society a better, fairer and more just place to live. Only a libertarian extremist would complain about how 'government only builds roads for those the government wants to build roads for'. A true Good Samaritan should want to make sure that nobody falls through the cracks of a society's generosity (rather than futilely trying to patch the cracks).

After all, what did the Romans ever do for us?