I think you are looking at it the wrong way. It is almost impossible to prove a negative (unless we found proof of someone admitting "I made it all up"). A mythicist is going to show that what you think is proof of Jesus existence may not be proof at all. But even mythicists like Carrier are not going to completely discount the possibility of Jesus existence, just that from his opinion he believes it more likely he didn't exist (he used to believe that he did).Crazy Anglican wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:33 pmMy question for a mythicist would be when does it stop being myth?
Okay Jesus is a myth (never seen any evidence to make me believe this but for the sake of argument granted)
There are lots and lots of stories in the Bible that are obviously myth. There are lots of Christian stories after Christ that are also myth. There are lots and lots of other mythical people/beings in the ancient world that had similar stories (e.g. resurrection/virgin birth). Why should I believe the Jesus stories any more than all the others?Then his disciples would probably have to be myths as well since the stories about the me have them going across the known world preaching about Jesus and going to rather gruesome deaths without recanting (so it's easier if they are myths too because they probably aren't simply liars what would the motive be?)
I believe Ehlich made the argument that many real people have had mythical stories made about them (e.g. even people like George Washington), but what he didn't say is that there are real records of the non-mythical stuff for these people too. At least from my understanding of Carrier's argument, there are no non-mythical stories about Jesus life. The evidence that there were multiple sources for the Gospels, which is Carrier's opinion and which I more and more agree with, is at best speculative.
I think a lot of weight is put on Paul as "proof" of Jesus existence...but Carrier will argue this evidence isn't really there. For example (again I am paraphrasing my very limited understanding), his references to Jesus are largely through revelation, NOT real events. He never refers to Jesus ministry (I don't believe though they are saying that the people referred to as "apostles" are actually false). His references to the crucifixion are very mystical. The early church deliberately changed words in Paul's letters to make it sound more like Jesus was "born" rather than "created" (original Greek text) again to make Jesus more "real". In his videos he goes through many, many more specific texts and references in Paul.Then there is Paul (universally he seen as a real guy letters and all) So what? He hijacks a gnostic Jewish sect and invents a historical Jesus and his disciples (Who live concurrently with Paul and Paul interacts with them). Then you have the problem of the Sect of Thomas in India who Paul simply could not have had a hand in founding.
Of course, I am not the best person to make the mythicist argument. I don't really have any skin in the game anymore (I am a former Catholic). I just like the intellectual stimulation of reading or watching videos about it. Richard Carrier has many, many videos on youtube...which if you have time to look at (which you may do now) and have an open mind (I know it is a charged topic), I would encourage you to take a look.