Is this acceptable diplomacy?

[x3n]

Quick question: is this sort of diplomacy (from Gringe of course) acceptable? I've explained that there's no grudge and the game state backs that up, so I assume he's just trying to drive me to Mute him while he launches a massive propaganda campaign on the Global channel. I was going to email this to the mod, but I think that the discussions could be beneficial to the community as a whole.

Note that this same player has sent me several pages of graphic sexual harassment in the past and has also threatened to harm me in real life should we meet. Thus far, the mod's reaction has been to tell me to mute him. I do not feel like that is sufficient.

Anyway....



---- message from Ginge86 in game below - - - - -


Autumn, 2008: [Argentina]:Put it this way, if I lose this game because you are holding a grudge, I promise you, I will show you how a real grudge is held.
Unless you want a permanent enemy on this site and others, I highly recommend you start treating this game as a separate entity to the old one.
Otherwise, you may just find we play together, very, very, very often.
If its ok for you to hold a grudge, then it is also fine for me.
So unless you want to be forced to play anonymous games for the rest of your life, I suggest you start to act like a normal player.
04:26 PM [Argentina]:You sad, weak, pathetic little man


----- end ----

[Jamiet99uk]

It is hard to say without context.

What had you done which made him think you were holding a grudge?

We can establish from recent forum threads the Ginge86 is a very assertive player whose attitude in games is borderline offensive, but what is the context for the above message?

[gimix]

In general being "borderline offensive" is in my opinion downright unpleasant, and not good diplomacy either, but it is not against the rules.
And, while playing a game to take revenge on what happened in another one is definitely forbidden, only threatening to do so is still not a violation - provided the threat is not carried out.
The "graphic sexual harassment" part is totally different, and should trigger immediate action; but if you want to report about that, I ask you to do so in the mod forum, not here

[Octavious]

In general being "borderline offensive" is in my opinion downright unpleasant, and not good diplomacy either, but it is not against the rules.
And, while playing a game to take revenge on what happened in another one is definitely forbidden, only threatening to do so is still not a violation - provided the threat is not carried out.
The "graphic sexual harassment" part is totally different, and should trigger immediate action; but if you want to report about that, I ask you to do so in the mod forum, not here

I'm rather surprised by this. Surely threatening to make someone's ongoing membership of the website a misery is a real life (at least outside of the game) threat that carries the weight of plausibility? This is the sort of thing I'd have expected to have been swiftly cracked down on even back in the more laid back periods of moderation.

If the threat was carried out it should be a clear ban, but the threat itself must be enough for a stern talking to and a warning not to do it again?

[Ginge86]

Is stalking normal on this site? This player just wont leave me alone.

The context is I solo'ed against this player 1 year ago. I leave the site for 7 months, come back and find he is still harbouring weird grudges.
He is currently posting previous games and moderator comments into the global chat of the final game I have with him. In order to try and poison the board against me. And admitted in press that it is because of this previous game, he did the same in both games I had him in.

Those comments have been doctored by the way.

[gimix]

Would someone of you be so kind to post the game name or ID?

[Ginge86]

Would someone of you be so kind to post the game name or ID?

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... tboxanchor
This is the original game from months ago, in which Europe said
" Autumn, 2012: [Ghana]:and those are the last words I will hear from you in this game.

I hope that you enjoy anon games because if I see your name in a game I will make it my mission to be certain everyone know's who you are from the outset. Talk to the hand you overweight, insecure, immature, abusive, fuck."

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=617695
This is the link to the current game in which they have been talking about old games to get the board against me.

The game in which I believe they admitted to this being due to an old game was just cancelled, "Only for Big Kids". Not sure how you get that info as I cannot get on there no more.

If memory serves, the first game has been addressed by moderators already but Europe just cannot seem to let things go.

[Ginge86]

Would someone of you be so kind to post the game name or ID?

If it would help, I am happy to be removed from all of my face to face games.
Too many people on this site harbour grudges,
I will happily stick to anonymous games going forward.
So if the simple solution here is me and Europe no longer play together, which would be more than fine by me, I volunteer to be removed.
It will be nice to finally be able to log onto this site and not have a bunch of haters from old games complaining at me.
Although I do think it may be worth a mod speaking with them, as I have numerous people now confirming what I have said above about Europe using other games as a diplomatic tool, is correct.

[x3n]

This morning I was sent a PM from Gring86 on vdiplomacy.net, making it clear that he intended to carry out his cross-server harassment.

[x3n]

And "borderline offensive"?
This link is a (doctored for format) screencap of a small sample of messages I've received from Gring86. Please read this (note:NSFW) and tell me it is "borderline offensive".

https://imgur.com/a/xgzP6Rz

[PRINCE WILLIAM]

To Ginge:
While wanting revenge in a game for another is against the rules, you don't start every game with a tabula rasa. If you piss someone too much, he will remember it, and while he won't go for revenge, he will know not to trust you or help you, and this is perfectly within the rules as it is in human nature.
So don't be surprised if you make enemies in the games you play. Even in anon, you'll be identified by your acidic tone.

[Ginge86]

To Ginge:
While wanting revenge in a game for another is against the rules, you don't start every game with a tabula rasa. If you piss someone too much, he will remember it, and while he won't go for revenge, he will know not to trust you or help you, and this is perfectly within the rules as it is in human nature.
So don't be surprised if you make enemies in the games you play. Even in anon, you'll be identified by your acidic tone.

I think you will find that I have evidence that this player threatened to do this 7 months ago and then went on tO follow through on that threat in 2 recent games, openly admitting to half the board that it was for that reason. Kind of different to what your saying here. But I get why you would still be bitter about me reporting you for that game.

[Ginge86]

I think it might be a good idea for the moderators to lock this thread for now. x3n, as you can clearly read, a moderator is looking into your complaints and mine. I would suggest we await the outcome of that, rather than filling the forum with bitterness and our personal disagreements.
Most of what your alleging was dealt with, by moderators, 7 months ago, not sure why you feel you know better than them but perhaps you should stop now.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Ginge is such an interesting problem for this site lol. He exposes the drawbacks of having no real guidelines for community conduct beyond the very bare bones rules against sexual messages, doxxing messages, spam, and in-game cheating accusations (that last one was a favourite tactic until the mods cracked down).

I suspect the whole community is going to keep having these sorts of problems unless (i) Ginge86 plays more anon games, which he should do anyhow given how extremely paranoid he is about cheating and (ii) there is a way for players to blacklist Ginge if they can't handle his playstyle or feel it would be impossible to play a game with him without meta-gaming after some terrible thing Ginge said to them lol.

[x3n]

I can certainly understand why you would not want people reading the vile messages you have sent. You cannot know someone's age or gender here so it could easily be my daughter (or anyone's daughter) being subjected to your obscene sexual fantasies. I'm just looking for accountability, and if my actions (though brought on by your incessant harassment and bullying) call for my removal, then so be it. As long as we are BOTH removed then this site will be better for it.

I am embarrassed that I let you upset me to such an extent earlier and I am really trying to avoid that happening again. I'm fine with this thread being locked now, and I'm fine with you being able to exit the games you are losing with no harm to your precious score - but leave me alone.

[Ginge86]

Anyone else notice all the bitter people are the ones that never win any games?

[x3n]

:)

[Ginge86]

Final comment from me, aimed to the moderators.
What are site rules in regards to stalking?
Prince William, Esquire Bertissimo and X3N pop up everywhere I comment.
I believe that they are desperate to try and get me banned from this site, basically, for being better than them at the game.
At what point does this become bullying and harassment?
Because it would appear I cannot open my mouth without the 3 of them piping in with some derogatory statement.

[x3n]

Umm, I created this thread....

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

I've had a handful of interactions with Ginge, mostly negative but actually some fun positive ones too. I've seen some of the toxic behaviour he's accused of and want to support others when they claim to have experienced the same issues. I'll stay out of it if it seems like a grudge, but I've been motivated to talk about it because I would love some sort of solution that makes it possible to avoid playing with Ginge since, whoever's fault it is, the games he's in seem to get derailed with drama.