webdiplomacy.net

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:05 pm

Hellenic Riot wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:48 pm

When I was an admin, a lot of work was put in to cleaning up the forums. And yes, some decisions were made by others that I disagreed with, and plenty decisions were made by me that others disagreed with. Nobody's perfect.

Ok.

Well.

Since we're all writing essays.

I was banned from the site for saying it's ok to violently stand up to Nazis.

My position was clear: You're a an outright Nazi, you give up the right to be treated sensibly and without violence. People have the right to kill you because you are a fucking Nazi.

Wanna ban me again?

I have zero interest in discussing mod actions from several years ago. I don't recall who made that decision about you, or even if it happened while I was an admin or afterward.

I'd find it fairly difficult to ban you without mod powers, but if you insist, I'm sure I can try and find a way.

I do not insist, I'm just giving you a real scenario where, in my view, the Zultar-style moderation was way too far.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:07 pm

I don't even think this is controversial.

We fought the entire Second World War.

Nazis should die. No controversy.

I don't wish death on anyone, but I will agree nazis are the worst.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:21 pm

I do not insist, I'm just giving you a real scenario where, in my view, the Zultar-style moderation was way too far.

I agree that mistakes were made over the years, and that some people were unfairly targeted at times by them.

I do not think the solution to that is to go back ye wild west, rather than training people better and having moderation with a human touch. Certainly in my time (and I include myself in this), it was way too much of an ivory tower, and I haven't seen anything since that's suggested that culture will have changed.

In an ideal world, moderation should be like community policing, not like stop and frisk. And also, not like total anarchy.

We should put ChatGPT in charge of moderating the forum

Hellenic Riot wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:48 pm

So yes, you could bring in a more modern aesthetic and perhaps people might use the forums more, but in reality Discord is the medium that has surpassed Forums... And in a few years time, maybe something else will surpass Discord. The internet doesn't look like it did in 2010 when everything was discussed over forums. It also doesn't look like it did in 2000 when everything was discussed in IRCs.

Facebook Meta will be replacing discord, and webdip does have the headstart there in conforming to it. Maybe this is the solution and we get some sort of VR F2F setup going.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:05 pm

Ok.

Well.

Since we're all writing essays.

I was banned from the site for saying it's ok to violently stand up to Nazis.

My position was clear: You're a an outright Nazi, you give up the right to be treated sensibly and without violence. People have the right to kill you because you are a fucking Nazi.

Wanna ban me again?

In principle I agree that it should be okay to kill nazis or at the very least be very violent to them, but opening the floodgates of normalizing violence will likely backfire and harm the most vulnerable in society who aren't Nazis, so I think it should be a last resort.

It's a much less extreme case, but I recently read a discord debate where someone argued that Will Smith was very justified in slapping Chris Rock at the academy and that more men need to be slapped publicly. But like other forms of violence, if this becomes normalized, it's not just going to be rich famous men that get slapped and it's going to put many vulnerable people in a more precarious position with less recourse.

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:08 am

Hellenic Riot wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:48 pm

So yes, you could bring in a more modern aesthetic and perhaps people might use the forums more, but in reality Discord is the medium that has surpassed Forums... And in a few years time, maybe something else will surpass Discord. The internet doesn't look like it did in 2010 when everything was discussed over forums. It also doesn't look like it did in 2000 when everything was discussed in IRCs.

Facebook Meta will be replacing discord, and webdip does have the headstart there in conforming to it. Maybe this is the solution and we get some sort of VR F2F setup going.

Ah the classic Flum trolling is back

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:07 pm

JECE wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:25 pm

Technically speaking I believe your forum account is a separate account from your WebDip account.

I guess, but I didn't really have to register with yet another website to use it.

Seems like a weird thing to worry about in 2023

Right back at you:

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:10 pm

I think [registering with yet another website] is kinda just annoying

JECE wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:27 am

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:07 pm

JECE wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:52 pm

I guess, but I didn't really have to register with yet another website to use it.

Seems like a weird thing to worry about in 2023

Right back at you:

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:10 pm

I think [registering with yet another website] is kinda just annoying

Those two things are hardly the same.

This Kestas guy is giving me Elon Musk vibes tbh.

This style of forum is hopelessly outdated. I'd say either kill it like it's a nazi, and move over to discord. Or try to make it a place where it's easy to discuss strategy and tactics: Support easily importing map images from all major dip websites. Auto-generate maps from sets of orders, etc.

Either way, it should be focused on Diplomacy. And not for endless abusive discussion on politics. We've got twitter for the latter.

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:25 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:07 pm

I don't even think this is controversial.

We fought the entire Second World War.

Nazis should die. No controversy.

I don't wish death on anyone, but I will agree nazis are the worst.

To chime in with a view point representing a significant slice of the British right wing, I fully support Jamie's enthusiastic backing of capital punishment for Nazis, and indeed people of a similar level of evil. It is reassuring to see elements of the left adopting such as sound approach to crime and punishment, and look forward to it heralding a new era of pragmatic cooperation for the future.

The question of when WWII started is perhaps more of a debate

RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:42 am

This style of forum is hopelessly outdated. I'd say either kill it like it's a nazi, and move over to discord. Or try to make it a place where it's easy to discuss strategy and tactics: Support easily importing map images from all major dip websites. Auto-generate maps from sets of orders, etc.

Either way, it should be focused on Diplomacy. And not for endless abusive discussion on politics. We've got twitter for the latter.

The problem with discord is that there's an awful lot of people out there who don't like it, and it's rather separate from the site itself.

Discord has its place, although I'm not sure how it's in any way less outdated than the forum. It's got a bit of a Yahoo Pool vibe from 20 odd years ago, but without the pool.

The advantage of a forum is that it's here, and the style of communication lends itself to the way people use the site. They come here, make a move, send messages, and post something on the forum. A more real time conversational method can be an awkward fit, and I think making it the primary medium is an error.

RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:42 am

Either way, it should be focused on Diplomacy. And not for endless abusive discussion on politics. We've got twitter for the latter.

Good God, no! The fact of the matter is that there's only so much you can ever say about Diplomacy, and most of that is pretty dull. You need a distraction and a reminder that you're playing against real people with other interests. And you need a reason to visit the site when you're sick and tired of the game itself

Octavious wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:00 am

Yahoo Pool vibe from 20 year ago

Hahaha, a perfect description

RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:42 am

This style of forum is hopelessly outdated. I'd say either kill it like it's a nazi.

These sentiments are not allowed on this forum. Please apologise to any Nazis who may feel threatened.

Discord is not appropriate for a forum, because Discord tends to be so fast-moving that it is impossible to keep up on the discussion unless you have Discord open 24 hours a day.

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:08 am

Hellenic Riot wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:48 pm

So yes, you could bring in a more modern aesthetic and perhaps people might use the forums more, but in reality Discord is the medium that has surpassed Forums... And in a few years time, maybe something else will surpass Discord. The internet doesn't look like it did in 2010 when everything was discussed over forums. It also doesn't look like it did in 2000 when everything was discussed in IRCs.

Facebook Meta will be replacing discord, and webdip does have the headstart there in conforming to it. Maybe this is the solution and we get some sort of VR F2F setup going.

Excuse me for being an old person, but what is "Facebook Meta" ?

I thought "Meta" was just the name of the holding company that owns Facebook.

Are you suggesting we start a Facebook group and take forum discussions there?

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:25 pm

JECE wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:05 pm

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:32 pm

An easy solution would be to utilize the new Forum functionality built into Discord. Best of both worlds.

Except that you need a separate account.

Technically speaking I believe your forum account is a separate account from your WebDip account.

Please do not make multi-accounting accusations on the forum.

Hellenic Riot wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:25 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:21 pm

I do not insist, I'm just giving you a real scenario where, in my view, the Zultar-style moderation was way too far.

I agree that mistakes were made over the years, and that some people were unfairly targeted at times by them.

I do not think the solution to that is to go back ye wild west, rather than training people better and having moderation with a human touch. Certainly in my time (and I include myself in this), it was way too much of an ivory tower, and I haven't seen anything since that's suggested that culture will have changed.

In an ideal world, moderation should be like community policing, not like stop and frisk. And also, not like total anarchy.

Ok I actually agree with this stance. Thanks HR.