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I will participate in a tournament if we do one

Unfortunately the Champions League is only for the top 32 seeded players in 1v1 (or at least, the top 32 who are willing to play). The 1v1 Showdown is an open to all tournament but takes a hell of a lot of effort to run - I *might* be able to do that later in the year but definitely not right now :D

I'd be down for my regular ass-kicking delivered by xorxes, RJ, and/or CptMike

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:07 am

I need to do a few more things to get the go-ahead from the mod team.

How’s everything coming together? Please let me know if you think I might be able to help with anything!

MadMarx wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:08 am

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:07 am

I need to do a few more things to get the go-ahead from the mod team.

How’s everything coming together? Please let me know if you think I might be able to help with anything!

Have done the things, I got an email back from the mods a week ago that I need to respond to (which I completely forgot about, so thanks for the reminder :D ). We should be able to have signups up by early March assuming the mods agree with the changes.

The main point of contention is what to do in the case of a 3-way tie in the group stage (either for 1st, 2nd, 3rd or for 2nd, 3rd, 4th).

Current rules state each player involved in the tie plays one game against each of the other 2 involved in the tie - which is fine, but that can 3-way tie again.

At this point my rules state 'after much banging of the TD's head against the table, a coinflip will determine which of the three players advances', which the mods took issue with on the basis that a coinflip shouldn't be used to determine eliminations. But I'm kinda stuck on how to resolve that situation in a way that doesn't allow for tie after tie after tie.

I think you should skip the replay in the group stage altogether. Takes time. Here's a bunch of things that can be used as tiebreakers:
1. Number of wins.
2. Is Austria still considered stronger than France? Then the number of wins as France.
3. Who won their games the fastest.
4. Who picked up the most centers in their losses.

Of course, you can make a separate table only including the two/three tied teams.

Finally, if nothing else separates:
5. Who has the higher rank.

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:53 pm

At this point my rules state 'after much banging of the TD's head against the table, a coinflip will determine which of the three players advances', which the mods took issue with on the basis that a coinflip shouldn't be used to determine eliminations. But I'm kinda stuck on how to resolve that situation in a way that doesn't allow for tie after tie after tie.

At first I thought you meant that the game itself equates to a coin flip and I was excited to get another GTO vs. Exploitative flamewar between swordsman and the GTOverlords.

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:59 pm

I got an email back from the mods a week ago that I need to respond to (which I completely forgot about, so thanks for the reminder :D ).

You’re welcome for the reminder, thank you for your time and effort organizing this tournament, *very* much appreciated!

RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:46 pm

Finally, if nothing else separates:
5. Who has the higher rank.

FTR/FWIW - I would never have the higher rank be a tie-breaker, I feel very strongly that a tie-breaker in a tournament should be based on the performance in that tournament, if a lower ranked player ties a higher ranked player then the lower ranked player has performed better in the tournament relative to quantified skill level and thus should be rewarded accordingly.

In a case when symmetry can make it impossible to separate, it's either a coin flip (as in the FIFA World Cup), a rank (as in UEFA Champions League), or a potentially infinite sequence of replays. I think those are the only options. If the mods won't accept replays nor coin flip then rank is the only one left. It's actually a little strange that they won't accept a coin flip.

Of course, you wanna put some silly in game measures in between (SC count, etc) to avoid that this tiebreaker is used in most cases. But you still need it at the end if tiebreaking is to be an algorithm (i.e., terminate after a finite number of steps).

No no no. It's universal in competitions that you must beat a champ to dethrone a champ. If you only tie then ranks remain the same. With your rule it's beneficial for players to loose a few game before the tournament begins, to drop in rank. Systems where it's beneficial for players to loose are against the whole principle of competing.

I’ll agree to disagree, no more!

If I tie a worse ranked player, I would demand that they advance, I would expect more of myself and refuse to rest on my laurels, a tie against a worse ranked opponent is a loss, and hats off to their superior (relative) performance, period.

I decided to keep the coinflip in as a final tiebreaker if playing games can't determine a winner; mods are now okay with this so we're good to go! Invitations will go out and signups will go up later this week (and I'll publish the bot-less ELO rankings I'll be using for seeding and qualification).

At this point it's the Spring 2020 CL, but it is finally happening!

Yay! And double yay for the bot-less ELO!

Bot-less ELO: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

This has a 12-month dropoff, so includes a number of players who haven't played in a long time. It's the ranking I'll use in both seeding and for determining which signups to accept (of the players who sign up, the top 32 according to these ratings will be accepted). Signup thread and suchlike will go up later tonight!