Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

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Expand view Topic review: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Telamor » Tue May 29, 2018 11:29 pm

@Croak a 48/52 split has been won by 2 because that is the % of people that would need to switch to the losing side for the vote to be tied.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by ksako8 » Tue May 29, 2018 10:23 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Tue May 29, 2018 10:03 pm
 What about it? The press have attacked people in power since time immemorial, sometimes justified, sometimes not. Should judges be beyond criticism? Of course not.
Criticism is fine, branding them enemy of the people is almost inciting violence.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by peterlund » Tue May 29, 2018 10:16 pm

Well we do not care very much about the UK Brexit game. Let them play that game if they wish. But there seem to be some few smart people left on the isles realising that EU membership is a good thing for most European countries. I feel sorry for them having to life there. We should really offer them asylum!

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Octavious » Tue May 29, 2018 10:03 pm

What about it? The press have attacked people in power since time immemorial, sometimes justified, sometimes not. Should judges be beyond criticism? Of course not.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by ksako8 » Tue May 29, 2018 9:32 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Thu May 24, 2018 4:02 pm
 I think we must be very careful about blaming the media for attacks, or accusing them of incitement to murder. A free press is critical to democracy, and a free press has to be free to express its opinion and paint people in a negative light. Strangely enough, the closest thing I've seen to encouraging an attack has actually come from left leaning arts and targeted figures of the right wing press. The musical "The Assassination of Katie Hopkins" went a bit beyond the pale. The newspapers themselves, whilst often distasteful, I don't think have.

The problem with your proposal, Telamor, is that it demands a general election with Brexit as the sole issue. That was neither possible nor desirable.
What about the "enemies of the people" referring to the high court judges in one of the right wing newspapers?

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Octavious » Tue May 29, 2018 10:55 am

Telamor wrote: ↑
Tue May 29, 2018 9:19 am
Octavious wrote: ↑
Fri May 25, 2018 10:18 pm
 I can't say I'm in favour of it, no. Out of curiosity, how many vice chancellors were harassed at their home address?
Why VCs in particular? Are they particularly perenant to the topic at hand?
Are they not? Sorry, I only have a vague recollection of the story. I assume that if serious harassment of anyone involved had happened it would have made a bigger impact in the media.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by CroakandDagger » Tue May 29, 2018 10:02 am

Telamor wrote: ↑
Mon May 21, 2018 3:58 pm
 You can hardly call it the will of the people Leon it was a deeply divisive vote won by by about 2%.
Telamor wrote: ↑
Mon May 21, 2018 10:12 pm
 A 48%/ 52% vote is by any definition divisive. The fact that the conversation since the vote has essentially been 'well fuck the 48% and their opinions' suck it up and support Brexit even though you think it's a bad idea has just made it worse. Not to mention the fact that most of those that argued in favour of Brexit have decided they don't want anything to do with actually enacting it.

Brexit has been undeniably divisive.
I find it interesting that remoaners will vaguely claim that the vote was won by "about 2%" when it suits them to imply that it was closer than it was, and then later mysteriously have the figures that show it was decisively won by a 4% margin.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Telamor » Tue May 29, 2018 9:19 am

Octavious wrote: ↑
Fri May 25, 2018 10:18 pm
 I can't say I'm in favour of it, no. Out of curiosity, how many vice chancellors were harassed at their home address?
Why VCs in particular? Are they particularly perenant to the topic at hand?

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Octavious » Fri May 25, 2018 10:18 pm

I can't say I'm in favour of it, no. Out of curiosity, how many vice chancellors were harassed at their home address?

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Telamor » Fri May 25, 2018 9:20 pm

Oct if you want to write strongly worded letters to Academics you can use their work address. There is no need to harass people at home because of their beliefs on Brexit whether by mail or not.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Octavious » Thu May 24, 2018 9:57 pm

The clear distinction being that one is an invitation to imagine a world in which a deeply unpopular figure has been murdered, and the other is an encouragement of writing strongly worded letters.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Telamor » Thu May 24, 2018 8:26 pm

There is a pretty clear distinction between someone writing a satirical musical about a public figure and publishing the names and addresses of people you disagree with. I do not endorse calls to violence in the media and providing information to facilitate acts of violence is a whole new level of awful.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Octavious » Thu May 24, 2018 4:02 pm

I think we must be very careful about blaming the media for attacks, or accusing them of incitement to murder. A free press is critical to democracy, and a free press has to be free to express its opinion and paint people in a negative light. Strangely enough, the closest thing I've seen to encouraging an attack has actually come from left leaning arts and targeted figures of the right wing press. The musical "The Assassination of Katie Hopkins" went a bit beyond the pale. The newspapers themselves, whilst often distasteful, I don't think have.

The problem with your proposal, Telamor, is that it demands a general election with Brexit as the sole issue. That was neither possible nor desirable.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Telamor » Thu May 24, 2018 1:31 pm

Accidentally double posted

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Telamor » Thu May 24, 2018 1:31 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Thu May 24, 2018 10:02 am
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Wed May 23, 2018 10:30 pm
 And the leave camp promised £350m per week extra for the NHS. Where exactly is that money Leon?
That's not true, as you well know. A prominent part of the leave side claimed (wrongly) that £350 was sent to the EU each week and suggested that the NHS could be better funded if it wasn't. A promise was never made to spend an extra £350 pw on the NHS. It was implied that a healthy portion of our EU bill would be better spent on the NHS, but it was neither a promise nor was any specific figure mentioned.
@Leon this is why your suggestion that the time for discussing what Brexit is was during the referendum. As neither side was an actual political neither side could make actual statements about what Brexit would look like or how they would enact it. In theory the debate should have been fought on the ideological issues of being in/out of the EU. In the end it wasn't but such as life. Once the referendum was concluded then the various parties, that could and would enact Brexit, should have put forward their various proposals and Britain could have voted for what kind of Brexit they wanted.

As it stands the Tories were to desperate to keep their grip on power and so triggered Article 50 ASAP. Which shutdown debate and led us to the state we're in now where the Brexit department denies their own reports exist and lie to parliament about their findings and the right wing press tries to invite another Jo Cox style attack on members of the public they dislike.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Octavious » Thu May 24, 2018 10:02 am

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Wed May 23, 2018 10:30 pm
 And the leave camp promised £350m per week extra for the NHS. Where exactly is that money Leon?
That's not true, as you well know. A prominent part of the leave side claimed (wrongly) that £350 was sent to the EU each week and suggested that the NHS could be better funded if it wasn't. A promise was never made to spend an extra £350 pw on the NHS. It was implied that a healthy portion of our EU bill would be better spent on the NHS, but it was neither a promise nor was any specific figure mentioned.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Jamiet99uk » Wed May 23, 2018 10:30 pm

leon1122 wrote: ↑
Wed May 23, 2018 8:51 pm
Telamor wrote: ↑
Wed May 23, 2018 12:01 pm
 @Leon I'm not calling for a redo, at least not yet. What I want is to have an honest national discussion about what Brexit is and how we envision Britain dealing with the fallout.
The time to "discuss" Brexit was before the referendum, and it was discussed incessantly for many months. The remain camp was constantly spewing forth about all the horrific fallout that would come from Brexit, and it's clear that the British people didn't buy it. Honestly, you sound like the drunk cop in this video (https://youtu.be/D8WZteSmQkk), saying that we need to have a discussion when we already had this discussion before the referendum.
And the leave camp promised £350m per week extra for the NHS. Where exactly is that money Leon?

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by leon1122 » Wed May 23, 2018 8:51 pm

Telamor wrote: ↑
Wed May 23, 2018 12:01 pm
 @Leon I'm not calling for a redo, at least not yet. What I want is to have an honest national discussion about what Brexit is and how we envision Britain dealing with the fallout.
The time to "discuss" Brexit was before the referendum, and it was discussed incessantly for many months. The remain camp was constantly spewing forth about all the horrific fallout that would come from Brexit, and it's clear that the British people didn't buy it. Honestly, you sound like the drunk cop in this video (https://youtu.be/D8WZteSmQkk), saying that we need to have a discussion when we already had this discussion before the referendum.

Re: Irony: UK hosts conference aimed at encouraging other countries to join EU

by Octavious » Wed May 23, 2018 4:04 pm

UKIP would have, certainly, but it is their reason for existing. Tory eurosceptics would largely have abandoned the referendum idea and gone back to arguing against further integration. I think the chances of a second referendum actually happening in the foreseeable future had remain won would have been pretty much nil

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