Retreat Question

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Expand view Topic review: Retreat Question

Re: Retreat Question

by jamesa7171 » Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:37 pm

elijahnelson wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:30 am
Muscovy_Duck wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:52 am
 I could well be mistaken but I always thought that the original rules permitted voluntary disbandment in the Spring turn regardless of whether or not a unit was caused to retreat.

If the owner retained sufficient supply centres the unit could be replaced by either a fleet or army in the Autumn builds phase.

This option (voluntary Spring disbandment) does not seem to be available in games here.mapquest
The option for voluntary disbandment during the Spring turn, as you mentioned, is not part of the standard rules in Diplomacy. Units can only be disbanded during the Autumn builds phase, and that is subject to the number of supply centers the player controls.
As far as I can tell, this is the second time this thread has been bumped from the dead by a bot using chatGPT (or similar).

As a relatively new user to the forum, it is depressing that on every single new post, I have to first check whether the poster is human or not (because half the time they're not). It makes me not even want to bother reading the new posts. Can something *please* be done about this problem?

Re: Retreat Question

by GoatOfWar » Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:39 pm

gimix wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:16 pm
 When you create a game you can select "Rulebook press" of "Full press". The former blocks press during retreats / adjustments as per the official rulebook; the latter, which in my opinion is far better in a non-live, online environment, always allows press
thanks. How do you tell in the game listing which it is? I've seen Rulebook press but lots of others have nothing listed so is the default Full press? And what is rulebook chat?

Re: Retreat Question

by gimix » Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:16 pm

When you create a game you can select "Rulebook press" of "Full press". The former blocks press during retreats / adjustments as per the official rulebook; the latter, which in my opinion is far better in a non-live, online environment, always allows press

Re: Retreat Question

by GoatOfWar » Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:21 pm

I didn't quite read far enough (possibly ever!) seeing as there was the use of "must" retreat I was not at all expecting voluntary disband as an option at the end. I stand humbly corrected.

Is press available during retreats here? And builds? Seen what other sites have done and it looks like house rules most the time (albeit i think the platforms have allowed the person setting up the game to choose). Just checking what i am getting into before I get into it!

Re: Retreat Question

by JECE » Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:10 pm

GoatOfWar wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:29 am
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 am
emmaorabelle wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 4:33 am
 No, a unit that is forced to retreat must always retreat to a valid and empty space. If there are valid spaces available for retreat, the unit cannot be disbanded. However, if there are no valid spaces available for retreat, the unit is destroyed and removed from the board. rankdle
Wrong.
You sure about that? See page 17 of the copy of the rules here https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/diplomacy.pdf
That is what I remember but I do recall other sites allowing disbands if forced to retreat. What does here allow?
Page 17 is quite clear: "A unit can always voluntarily disband instead of retreating." That is why on-line implementations of Diplomacy, including webDiplomacy, allow it.

Re: Retreat Question

by GoatOfWar » Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:29 am

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 am
emmaorabelle wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 4:33 am
 No, a unit that is forced to retreat must always retreat to a valid and empty space. If there are valid spaces available for retreat, the unit cannot be disbanded. However, if there are no valid spaces available for retreat, the unit is destroyed and removed from the board. rankdle
Wrong.
You sure about that? See page 17 of the copy of the rules here https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/diplomacy.pdf
That is what I remember but I do recall other sites allowing disbands if forced to retreat. What does here allow?

Re: Retreat Question

by A_Tin_Can » Tue May 16, 2023 4:20 pm

I think the 'Gamemaster' had Russia
There's also no Gamemaster in Diplomacy.

Re: Retreat Question

by Ferdack » Tue May 09, 2023 1:33 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 am
emmaorabelle wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 4:33 am
 No, a unit that is forced to retreat must always retreat to a valid and empty space. If there are valid spaces available for retreat, the unit cannot be disbanded. However, if there are no valid spaces available for retreat, the unit is destroyed and removed from the board. rankdle
Wrong.
Seems to be a bot.

Re: Retreat Question

by Jamiet99uk » Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 am

emmaorabelle wrote: ↑
Tue May 09, 2023 4:33 am
 No, a unit that is forced to retreat must always retreat to a valid and empty space. If there are valid spaces available for retreat, the unit cannot be disbanded. However, if there are no valid spaces available for retreat, the unit is destroyed and removed from the board. rankdle
Wrong.

Re: Retreat Question

by Muscovy_Duck » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:46 pm

Thought so.

Should have smelt a rat at the time!

Re: Retreat Question

by Claesar » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:54 pm

Muscovy_Duck wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:26 pm
 Thanks for the advice on this.

Yes, I was asking about disbandment DURING THE ORDERS PHASE of the SPRING TURN. But it would be equally valid if applied to non-displaced units after the Spring moves.

It must have been a House Rule in my first ever face-to-face game. Should have insisted on reading the rules!

I think the 'Gamemaster' had Russia and miraculously converted several fleets used to destroy England into a large Army!
That's definitely not in the rules.

Re: Retreat Question

by Muscovy_Duck » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:26 pm

Thanks for the advice on this.

Yes, I was asking about disbandment DURING THE ORDERS PHASE of the SPRING TURN. But it would be equally valid if applied to non-displaced units after the Spring moves.

It must have been a House Rule in my first ever face-to-face game. Should have insisted on reading the rules!

I think the 'Gamemaster' had Russia and miraculously converted several fleets used to destroy England into a large Army!

Re: Retreat Question

by gimix » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:21 pm

Claesar wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:05 pm
 It is. Change the 'Retreat' dop-down box to 'Disband' instead.
I think Muscovy was talking about voluntarily disbanding even if you don't have to retreat - ie when "You have no orders to submit for this phase" or the retreats phase simply doesn't take place at all.

In that case there's no option and i believe RoganJosh is right - original rules never encompassed that option

Re: Retreat Question

by Claesar » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:05 pm

Muscovy_Duck wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:52 am
 I could well be mistaken but I always thought that the original rules permitted voluntary disbandment in the Spring turn regardless of whether or not a unit was caused to retreat.

If the owner retained sufficient supply centres the unit could be replaced by either a fleet or army in the Autumn builds phase.
This is all correct.
This option (voluntary Spring disbandment) does not seem to be available in games here.
It is. Change the 'Retreat' dop-down box to 'Disband' instead.

Re: Retreat Question

by RoganJosh » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:22 am

You are indeed mistaken.

Re: Retreat Question

by Muscovy_Duck » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:52 am

I could well be mistaken but I always thought that the original rules permitted voluntary disbandment in the Spring turn regardless of whether or not a unit was caused to retreat.

If the owner retained sufficient supply centres the unit could be replaced by either a fleet or army in the Autumn builds phase.

This option (voluntary Spring disbandment) does not seem to be available in games here.

Re: Retreat Question

by Flubberj » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:27 pm

Thanks!

Re: Retreat Question

by pyxxy » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:24 pm

Yes.

And there can be strategic reasons to do so :) but I'm assuming that's why you asked.

Retreat Question

by Flubberj » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:21 pm

When a unit is forced to retreat, can they disband when they still have valid places to retreat to?

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