It's way less of a time commitment than press. Across most types of boardgames and videogames, people usually find playing with/against humans more exciting than bots.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:58 pm

New England Fire Squad wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:10 pm

ColonelFritz28 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:19 pm

I'm curious, because I've never played a Gunboat game, but it seems like it's just the same as a bot game. I'm sure it's not, but what is the difference, and what is the draw to playing no press?

Ive been told I'm gruff and abrasive. Luckily in gunboat no one can tell

Wrinkled and hairy, too, or so a bot told me.

Hairy yes, but wrinkled? I'm not that old yet good sir

Bot games are fun in the beginning. The main frustration I have with bots is they don't seem to be at all concerned when someone is about to solo. They're just interested in increasing their own SC count. It's also more fun playing with the knowledge that there are actual humans controlling the other powers and reacting to your moves. If another player is about to solo, you at least know that someone is working hard for that.

I prefer full press over gunboat, but full press can be very time-consuming, and gunboat is a good way to practice tactics.

New England Fire Squad wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:10 pm

ColonelFritz28 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:19 pm

I'm curious, because I've never played a Gunboat game, but it seems like it's just the same as a bot game. I'm sure it's not, but what is the difference, and what is the draw to playing no press?

Ive been told I'm gruff and abrasive. Luckily in gunboat no one can tell

Wrinkled and hairy, too, or so a bot told me.

ColonelFritz28 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:19 pm

I'm curious, because I've never played a Gunboat game, but it seems like it's just the same as a bot game. I'm sure it's not, but what is the difference, and what is the draw to playing no press?

Ive been told I'm gruff and abrasive. Luckily in gunboat no one can tell

The key thing is that Gunboat games also include communication, and since the communication is limited it actually trains your diplomatic skills and relation-handling abilities MORE than press games. The best example might be the "Biggest Game of All Time" (the blog BrotherBored has a 80,000-word in depth journal on the game from the PoV of Germany, which was the best player in that game and even almosted soloed). You can see how your moves have very far-reaching implications, and the art of balancing between tactically beneficial moves (backstabbing allies often, greedily lunging for supply centers, going for solo wins, ...) and diplomatically beneficial moves ("useless" support-holds, intentionally failed convoys, keeping a half-death country alive, ...). It's when communicating is hard that the real masters of communication dominate.

The Journal: https://brotherbored.com/tag/the-bigges ... -all-time/. The author, BrotherBored (a.k.a. swordsman3003) is one of the best gunboat players in the world, and is equally strong in press diplomacy.

Gunboat games in Diplomacy are indeed different from bot games, and they offer a unique gameplay experience compared to standard press games.
sonic exe

Yeah, but this game is called Diplomacy, not tactics. For me, Gunboat takes a huge component out of this game. Chess or bridge is a much better tactical game.

Why Gunboat? I find actions speak louder than words

There's another important aspect: There's a lot of hidden communication in Gunboat, with supports sent to other players as a suggestion of moves or alliances. Bots don't pick up on this communication as well as humans do.

Negotiating in a game that gets dragged for weeks would be too much; I don't want to commit so much time to it. What happens on the board is all that matters anyway.

@ColonelFritz28
Here is a good example of a well-played gunboat. This game just finished.
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=486852

Makes sense. Yeah, I hadn't thought about map variants. And I guess there are some differences between human and bot games that make Gunboat good. I had kind of thought of it like chess, but yeah, when you have seven instead of two players, humans are going to do better. I'm somewhat new to Diplomacy, so I have used bot games to learn the game.
Thanks for the answers!

Personally, I find bot games to be low-key, no one rips on you for stabbing them, which can be refreshing. Gunboat games also seem to go quicker, maybe because people aren't waiting for chat? I also like some variants specifically for gunboat. Ancient Mediterranean, for example, I very much enjoy in gunboat, but don't love in normal chat. Maybe you have a thing with a variant, like me, that would encourage you to play gunboat over free chat! Gunboat games help you focus on pure tactics, so if you want to specifically improve there, Gunboat is great!

Compared to bot games, there's isn't a ton of difference, to be fair. But I find, like most things (except for computing, chess, etc), humans always out-perform the AI. Gunboat games are harder to win. It's also nice to see humans think like you, bots will often pick you as a target, rush you and do nothing, but pin you down long enough another AI dominates. A human will respond to those threats and react accordingly.

Finally, in bot games, I often mis-order or don't think my moves through clearly. The fact is, I can do a turn in bot games in 3 minutes, but a gunboat game might be a day. This really forces and encourages me to look at everyone's moves, get a big, broad, view of the board, and as such, I perform better!

If you'd rather play bot games, by all means, go ahead. I use bot games a lot when I'm bored, and when I just joined to learn some strategies. Bot games in of themselves can be incredibly fulfilling.

But if you're looking for a harder challenge, better moves, and better players, without the stress of chat still, Gunboat is where it's at!

ColonelFritz28 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:37 pm

So then, why don't you just play bot games? What is the difference?

Well, bot games weren't always a thing, and some people just prefer to play vs. humans.

So then, why don't you just play bot games? What is the difference?

I like the tactical aspect of the game but don't like talking to people that much.

I'm curious, because I've never played a Gunboat game, but it seems like it's just the same as a bot game. I'm sure it's not, but what is the difference, and what is the draw to playing no press?