Does this cross the line?

by **JECE** » Thu Jun 22, 2023 11:30 pm

Troodonte wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 21, 2023 9:00 pm

JECE wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:17 pm

Troodonte wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:48 pm
Are there any lines in what concerns what you say in a diplomacy game ?
Well, the website implements some basic red lines about that in its rules:
https://webdiplomacy.net/rules.php wrote:4. Keep press appropriate.

Diplomacy is a game of many strategies and your discussions with other players can sometimes be hostile, impolite, and even uncivilized. These press strategies are all permissible on webDiplomacy and in Diplomacy in general. However, your press with other players should never include the following:

-Messages of sexual nature
-Overt racism or sexism of any kind
-Doxxing (revealing any real life information) of another player

This rule also applies to game titles.

First offenses will result in a warning in some circumstances but may result in a severe point dock and removal from the game in question if the offense necessitates such action. Second offenses may result in a temporary or permanent ban from webDiplomacy.

5. Do not use the software or moderators as a diplomacy tactic

Lying is fine in Diplomacy except when it gives mods/admins unnecessary work to do!

Falsely accusing someone of being a multi-accounter/meta-gaming to rally others against them in a game, or claiming that your orders didn't come out the way you entered them to cover up your motives, means mods/admins spend time looking for cheaters/bugs which were made up.

All accusations against other players must be made directly to the mod/admin team directly as specified below, in private, for this reason, and software bug claims must be genuine, even if only told to another player. Avoid making cheating accusations in game, via pm, or on the forum.

Hey JECE

Racism and sexual messages are a red line in any context. It’s objective. It’s agains the law. This is no exception. Not sure what doxxing is and if it should be a red line.
But what we are talking about here is completely different situation. I don’t think that there should be red lines about strategy, manipulation or stupid threats (game related). A racist statement is never game related in diplomacy.

So, should there be lines in what concerns what you say, game related, in a diplomacy game?

Rule 5. is the more interesting one. 'Don't give the mods more work to do.' So lying that the website changed your orders, even though the lying may be a Diplomacy tactic, crosses a red line.

Were you around a few months ago, Troodonte? Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if Kestas did away with rule 4., even though it's an obvious red line to you, me and most people. Doxxing would be publically posting another user's personal information, such as their real name or address.

by **Theodoric** » Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:00 am

"I don’t think that there should be red lines about strategy, manipulation or stupid threats (game related). A racist statement is never game related in diplomacy.

So, should there be lines in what concerns what you say, game related, in a diplomacy game?"

In my opinion, at least, the gray area is trying to make the game unpleasant in order to encourage a draw. The most obvious example is intentionally using up your excused missed turns. Maybe also posting messages that aren't racist, sexist, or abusive but are annoying and unpleasant, in order to encourage a draw, or taking a long time to resolve turns (especially retreats and builds) in the hope of frustrating opponents.

I'm not sure that any of this should be against the rules though--it just makes sense to have norms around it. Maybe the only thing that should actually be against the rules is threatening to slow the game down in your press.

by **Troodonte** » Wed Jun 21, 2023 9:00 pm

JECE wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:17 pm

Troodonte wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:48 pm
Are there any lines in what concerns what you say in a diplomacy game ?
Well, the website implements some basic red lines about that in its rules:
https://webdiplomacy.net/rules.php wrote:4. Keep press appropriate.

Diplomacy is a game of many strategies and your discussions with other players can sometimes be hostile, impolite, and even uncivilized. These press strategies are all permissible on webDiplomacy and in Diplomacy in general. However, your press with other players should never include the following:

-Messages of sexual nature
-Overt racism or sexism of any kind
-Doxxing (revealing any real life information) of another player

This rule also applies to game titles.

First offenses will result in a warning in some circumstances but may result in a severe point dock and removal from the game in question if the offense necessitates such action. Second offenses may result in a temporary or permanent ban from webDiplomacy.

5. Do not use the software or moderators as a diplomacy tactic

Lying is fine in Diplomacy except when it gives mods/admins unnecessary work to do!

Falsely accusing someone of being a multi-accounter/meta-gaming to rally others against them in a game, or claiming that your orders didn't come out the way you entered them to cover up your motives, means mods/admins spend time looking for cheaters/bugs which were made up.

All accusations against other players must be made directly to the mod/admin team directly as specified below, in private, for this reason, and software bug claims must be genuine, even if only told to another player. Avoid making cheating accusations in game, via pm, or on the forum.

Hey JECE

Racism and sexual messages are a red line in any context. It’s objective. It’s agains the law. This is no exception. Not sure what doxxing is and if it should be a red line.
But what we are talking about here is completely different situation. I don’t think that there should be red lines about strategy, manipulation or stupid threats (game related). A racist statement is never game related in diplomacy.

So, should there be lines in what concerns what you say, game related, in a diplomacy game?

by **JECE** » Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:17 pm

Troodonte wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:48 pm
Are there any lines in what concerns what you say in a diplomacy game ?

Well, the website implements some basic red lines about that in its rules:

https://webdiplomacy.net/rules.php wrote:4. Keep press appropriate.

Diplomacy is a game of many strategies and your discussions with other players can sometimes be hostile, impolite, and even uncivilized. These press strategies are all permissible on webDiplomacy and in Diplomacy in general. However, your press with other players should never include the following:

-Messages of sexual nature
-Overt racism or sexism of any kind
-Doxxing (revealing any real life information) of another player

This rule also applies to game titles.

First offenses will result in a warning in some circumstances but may result in a severe point dock and removal from the game in question if the offense necessitates such action. Second offenses may result in a temporary or permanent ban from webDiplomacy.

5. Do not use the software or moderators as a diplomacy tactic

Lying is fine in Diplomacy except when it gives mods/admins unnecessary work to do!

Falsely accusing someone of being a multi-accounter/meta-gaming to rally others against them in a game, or claiming that your orders didn't come out the way you entered them to cover up your motives, means mods/admins spend time looking for cheaters/bugs which were made up.

All accusations against other players must be made directly to the mod/admin team directly as specified below, in private, for this reason, and software bug claims must be genuine, even if only told to another player. Avoid making cheating accusations in game, via pm, or on the forum.

by **Troodonte** » Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:48 pm

Are there any lines in what concerns what you say in a diplomacy game ?

by **Esquire Bertissimmo** » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:30 pm

I keep running into a particular player who uses this strategy EVERY GAME from turn 1 and it's becoming really annoying.

I don't want to metagame at all, but it's hard not to recognize this player's ID since they throw such a huge "I'm going to throw the game" hissy fit any time you don't do exactly what they want (even low-stakes early moves). I now try to avoid them when joining non-anonymous games, as its unfun to be their enemy or their ally.

I agree it's not against the rules, but as a go-to and repeated behaviour it's certainly toxic. If this were an IRL game, I think most people would have enough shame to only use this tactic when it's genuinely a good strategy.

by **af(k(x-d))+c** » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:54 pm

That is a very cursed way to define cosine.

by **dargorygel** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 10:18 pm

Cosign x= 1 / (sec x)

by **cdazz30** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 9:57 pm

V+ wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:39 pm
Shoutout to Kestas and all the mods for everything y’all do to keep this whole thing working. Y’all deserve all the respect and gratitude that this community can possibly summon. I’m a tech dummy, but I’m happy to contribute as a game mod.

Co-sign

by **brainbomb** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:32 pm

make me a mod. ill fuck these cheetahs up

by **Chaqa** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:15 pm

kestasjk wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:57 pm
Thanks, that settles that
Chaqa wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:09 pm
Stick to the tech Kestas lol
Nothing would make me happier :| Diplomacy makes people crazy.. Shouldn't take too long to hand over game moderation, maybe a few months assuming there are still decent volunteers out there

Probably depends on if management is decent

by V+ » Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:39 pm

Shoutout to Kestas and all the mods for everything y’all do to keep this whole thing working. Y’all deserve all the respect and gratitude that this community can possibly summon. I’m a tech dummy, but I’m happy to contribute as a game mod.

by **kestasjk** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:57 pm

Thanks, that settles that

Chaqa wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:09 pm
Stick to the tech Kestas lol

Nothing would make me happier :| Diplomacy makes people crazy.. Shouldn't take too long to hand over game moderation, maybe a few months assuming there are still decent volunteers out there

by **Octavious** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:25 pm

I guess there should be some brownie points earned for the fact that the membership were asked before any action was taken.

by **Chaqa** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:09 pm

Stick to the tech Kestas lol

by **Jamiet99uk** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:05 pm

This is pretty normal behaviour, Kestas. It is absolutely not against the rules.

by **jmo1121109** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:33 am

kestasjk wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:41 am
Got a situation that got brought up and not sure how to moderate it.

(Paraphrased)
A heads up to bordering countries: If I lose [Country B] wins a solo, and I will cooperate with them. So no attacks; I will delete units to advantage [Country B].
This is obviously poor form at the least, but do people think it crosses the line or is this acceptable?

You really have no business moderating this site lol. Please hire some mods who know how the game works. Unless they're trading favors across games or player B is threatening to dox another player than there's no issue...pettiness happens all the time online and during the in person tournaments. It's a part of the game.

by **Ogion** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:58 am

I guess I don't follow. "Don't attack me, I'm necessary to the draw" is a very, very standard response. So is "screw it, if you're going to be an idiot and try to eliminate an indispensible player, you deserve to lose right along with me" Standard negotiation to me.

If it is the "If you attack me, I'll throw to some one else" is just bad, petulant play, but you'd have to ban half the site if that were a violation.

by **sweetandcool** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:33 am

sweetandcool wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:02 am
I thought this was standard in Diplomacy. Perhaps something is getting lost in translation?

It's pretty much always acceptable to threaten to fold to the winning power if it deters other players from attacking you.

However, if you are saying this player is initiating the game saying they will throw it if anybody attacks them, then I would say that is poor form. But not worthy of moderating.

If someone acts that way, most people would work together to wipe them out quickly. And if the benefiting player takes them up on it, I would expect the entire board to work together to screw over the two players acting this way.

In summary, the players are pretty capable of dealing social justice to a bad actor, and it is not necessary to moderate the situation. Do we have an ignore feature that lets you avoid playing with an undesirable player? That would be handy to avoid playing with people who act this way.

by **KaiserStalin** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:32 am

I'm hardly the most experienced player on here, but I don't think this is against the rules. It's just a threat to leverage a common enemy to make sure other players don't do things against you.

Does this cross the line?

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