Shell Bills

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Expand view Topic review: Shell Bills

Re: Shell Bills

by TrPrado » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:51 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:39 pm
TrPrado wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:36 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:09 pm
 Part of my day job requires a close understanding of legislation in the UK and EU, and some knowledge of the process by which that legislation is created.

That proposed "bill" would get laughed out of any self-respecting legislature. Mr. Strohm is indeed lazy, entirely disingenuous; a slipshod legislator of the most egregious kind. He should be ashamed of such shoddy practice and, if he is not, the electors should be ashamed to be represented by him, and at the next opportunity, should use their votes to remove his posterior from office.

Your senate was right to forbid such substandard practice, and your other chamber should do likewise.
Sadly this type of bill is widely accepted to be submitted in the Oklahoma House of Representatives.

For the past full year I've wanted to unseat Strohm. The more I hear of his antics (a more recent example linked here), the more fed up I am that he is allegedly supposed to represent me at the Capitol.
As an American, why don't you just call up a posse of your fellow Oklahomospooners (I believe that's the right phrase?), load up your assault rifles, and go run him out of town at gunpoint? I believe that's your constitutional right, isn't it?
It’d be far too expensive. The state has far too many special elections for suddenly vacant seats as it is.

Re: Shell Bills

by thamrick » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:50 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:39 pm
TrPrado wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:36 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:09 pm
 Part of my day job requires a close understanding of legislation in the UK and EU, and some knowledge of the process by which that legislation is created.

That proposed "bill" would get laughed out of any self-respecting legislature. Mr. Strohm is indeed lazy, entirely disingenuous; a slipshod legislator of the most egregious kind. He should be ashamed of such shoddy practice and, if he is not, the electors should be ashamed to be represented by him, and at the next opportunity, should use their votes to remove his posterior from office.

Your senate was right to forbid such substandard practice, and your other chamber should do likewise.
Sadly this type of bill is widely accepted to be submitted in the Oklahoma House of Representatives.

For the past full year I've wanted to unseat Strohm. The more I hear of his antics (a more recent example linked here), the more fed up I am that he is allegedly supposed to represent me at the Capitol.
As an American, why don't you just call up a posse of your fellow Oklahomospooners (I believe that's the right phrase?), load up your assault rifles, and go run him out of town at gunpoint? I believe that's your constitutional right, isn't it?
Boooooooooooooooooooo

Re: Shell Bills

by Jamiet99uk » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:39 pm

TrPrado wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:36 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:09 pm
 Part of my day job requires a close understanding of legislation in the UK and EU, and some knowledge of the process by which that legislation is created.

That proposed "bill" would get laughed out of any self-respecting legislature. Mr. Strohm is indeed lazy, entirely disingenuous; a slipshod legislator of the most egregious kind. He should be ashamed of such shoddy practice and, if he is not, the electors should be ashamed to be represented by him, and at the next opportunity, should use their votes to remove his posterior from office.

Your senate was right to forbid such substandard practice, and your other chamber should do likewise.
Sadly this type of bill is widely accepted to be submitted in the Oklahoma House of Representatives.

For the past full year I've wanted to unseat Strohm. The more I hear of his antics (a more recent example linked here), the more fed up I am that he is allegedly supposed to represent me at the Capitol.
As an American, why don't you just call up a posse of your fellow Oklahomospooners (I believe that's the right phrase?), load up your assault rifles, and go run him out of town at gunpoint? I believe that's your constitutional right, isn't it?

Re: Shell Bills

by Randomizer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:16 pm

It's too common in most state legislatures. It's an easy way to slip in bills at a later date to avoid most of the checks that would have stopped them from ever reaching a full vote.

It's almost as bad as a governor using a line item veto to edit a bill by removing letters from words in the bill to rewrite it into something completely different. I think that happened in Wisconsin a few decades ago.

Re: Shell Bills

by thamrick » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:59 pm

TrPrado wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:36 pm
 Sadly this type of bill is widely accepted to be submitted in the Oklahoma House of Representatives.

For the past full year I've wanted to unseat Strohm. The more I hear of his antics (a more recent example linked here), the more fed up I am that he is allegedly supposed to represent me at the Capitol.
This makes me sad :(

Re: Shell Bills

by TrPrado » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:36 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:09 pm
 Part of my day job requires a close understanding of legislation in the UK and EU, and some knowledge of the process by which that legislation is created.

That proposed "bill" would get laughed out of any self-respecting legislature. Mr. Strohm is indeed lazy, entirely disingenuous; a slipshod legislator of the most egregious kind. He should be ashamed of such shoddy practice and, if he is not, the electors should be ashamed to be represented by him, and at the next opportunity, should use their votes to remove his posterior from office.

Your senate was right to forbid such substandard practice, and your other chamber should do likewise.
Sadly this type of bill is widely accepted to be submitted in the Oklahoma House of Representatives.

For the past full year I've wanted to unseat Strohm. The more I hear of his antics (a more recent example linked here), the more fed up I am that he is allegedly supposed to represent me at the Capitol.

Re: Shell Bills

by TrPrado » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:18 pm

Foxcastle wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:19 pm
 What are the other rules? If I introduce a bill on Apples, can I then strike the entire bill and replace it with proposed legislation on Oranges later on in the process? Because then I've fulfilled the "substantive" requirement, but am still being disingenuous because I'm using it for the same purposes as a shell bill, I'm just being shady about it...
It’s theoretically possible. I assume the title of the bill (the bit up at the very top) could simply say “an act relating to produce” and the short title (actual name of the bill) could include the word apple, then in committee the author moves to amend by committee substitute to write a bill about oranges. The entire content of a bill can change in an instant in committee.

Re: Shell Bills

by Foxcastle » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:22 pm

Stay tuned for an announcement from the Director of Emergency Press Releases, Pamela Winchell, on exactly that issue!

Re: Shell Bills

by thamrick » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:03 pm

I have noticed a significant dearth of legislation about Oranges in Night Vale. John Peters - you know, the farmer? - tried to sell me a bunch of purple oranges with the StrexCorp logo on them. And I'm very concerned about the environmental impact of having such a large orange grove in Night Vale's desert climate. We need more regulation! Maybe Hiram McDaniels can get on that.

Re: Shell Bills

by Foxcastle » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:19 pm

What are the other rules? If I introduce a bill on Apples, can I then strike the entire bill and replace it with proposed legislation on Oranges later on in the process? Because then I've fulfilled the "substantive" requirement, but am still being disingenuous because I'm using it for the same purposes as a shell bill, I'm just being shady about it...

Re: Shell Bills

by Jamiet99uk » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:09 pm

Part of my day job requires a close understanding of legislation in the UK and EU, and some knowledge of the process by which that legislation is created.

That proposed "bill" would get laughed out of any self-respecting legislature. Mr. Strohm is indeed lazy, entirely disingenuous; a slipshod legislator of the most egregious kind. He should be ashamed of such shoddy practice and, if he is not, the electors should be ashamed to be represented by him, and at the next opportunity, should use their votes to remove his posterior from office.

Your senate was right to forbid such substandard practice, and your other chamber should do likewise.

Re: Shell Bills

by thamrick » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:56 am

I knew about shell bills, but had forgotten about them. I agree. They seem like a lazy and shady way to push legislation through.

I'd be curious to know what the justification for allowing them in the first place was.

Re: Shell Bills

by TrPrado » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:33 am

thamrick wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:21 am
TrPrado wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:17 am
 Nobody wants to join me in mocking state politicians?
I read it, and I thought it was a very valuable and needed piece of legislature.
Why of course! I'm quite glad to be represented by someone who writes such thoughtful and highly detailed legislation like Mr. Strohm.

Re: Shell Bills

by thamrick » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:22 am

thamrick wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:21 am
TrPrado wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:17 am
 Nobody wants to join me in mocking state politicians?
I read it, and I thought it was a very valuable and needed piece of legislature.
Oh wait.

Re: Shell Bills

by thamrick » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:21 am

TrPrado wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:17 am
 Nobody wants to join me in mocking state politicians?
I read it, and I thought it was a very valuable and needed piece of legislature.

Re: Shell Bills

by TrPrado » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:17 am

Nobody wants to join me in mocking state politicians?

Shell Bills

by TrPrado » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:27 pm

A bit of a change of pace.

I’ve been following state politics because I hate myself, and I took a gander at the bills submitted by the Representative for my district. He has submitted 21 bills for the current regular session, and 15 of those are shell bills. If you are unfamiliar with shell bills I will link one of his:

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pd ... %20INT.PDF

The point of a shell bill is to allow legislators to procrastinate and write the entire bill after bills were due to be submitted and it would be changed in committee, even though a deadline exists by which time a bill has to be passed out of the committee of its chamber of origin before it goes dormant (which is tomorrow, March 1 🙂) and can’t be heard.

The whole concept, to me, feels not only lazy but also disingenuous. Which is why the state senate banned them, yet the House still has yet to do so.

Has anyone else heard of these? Does anyone have thoughts?

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