Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

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Expand view Topic review: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Carl Tuckerson » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:02 pm

I probably shouldn't be able to retake it on principle lol. But that would be a funny and fitting punishment if so.

Luckily it's a nonlive game so I probably won't be asleep long enough to miss an entire phase.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Claesar » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:52 pm

Oh, unless you CD out of them. I don't think you'll be able to retake your own position as you'd no longer fit the bill.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Claesar » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:05 pm

Carl Tuckerson wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:53 am
I blew my RR by dozing off during one game and losing power during the other. My RR is lower than the threshold for a game I am in (80% threshold, mine is 75%). Does this affect my eligibility for the game? I'm guessing not since nothing has happened in the game yet.
No, you won't be affected in games you're already in.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Carl Tuckerson » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:53 am

I blew my RR by dozing off during one game and losing power during the other. My RR is lower than the threshold for a game I am in (80% threshold, mine is 75%). Does this affect my eligibility for the game? I'm guessing not since nothing has happened in the game yet.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by BobMcBob » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:20 am

jmo1121109 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:01 am
I haven't forgotten about this. Started working on a change today. Current thought is un-excused missed turns from a live game will reduce RR 11% for 1 week, and only 5% for 1 month. After 1 month they stop being a penalty. An unexcused missed turn in a live game after 3 in the month will result in 24 hour temp bans. Those unexcused missed turns won't count towards the yearly max. Excepted ideally by the end of the week but can't promise it.
I think that's a good way to go about it. Although there is another problem I have seen in live games. I have seen many live games ruined by the new system, when someone doesn't show up to the game, the first two turns are delayed, and then someone has to join before the game can continue.

I have two ideas for possible fixes, although neither of them are particularly good. One (the more harsh one) is that if anyone doesn't enter orders in the first turn, they are kicked immediately. The other is that we keep a similar system but if someone doesn't enter orders in the first turn, an unexcused missed turn is taken away but the phase progresses and the country uses only hold orders (similar to the old system). Neither are great, but they may be an improvement. I'll let the experienced live game players air their opinions on them.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by jmo1121109 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:01 am

I haven't forgotten about this. Started working on a change today. Current thought is un-excused missed turns from a live game will reduce RR 11% for 1 week, and only 5% for 1 month. After 1 month they stop being a penalty. An unexcused missed turn in a live game after 3 in the month will result in 24 hour temp bans. Those unexcused missed turns won't count towards the yearly max. Excepted ideally by the end of the week but can't promise it.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by New England Fire Squad » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:24 pm

Theoneandonly wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:28 pm
I am with you New England. My RR decreased dramatically due to live games. Even I have just 4/1331 yearly missed turns my RR is very low. I know I could have been more reliable. But most of the live games are pretty late in the evenings for me. But because I love this game I often join nevertheless. The problem is that it often takes more than an hour until we reach year two or three which extend live games extremly. Most of my mist turns I missed because I fell asleep due to the games doens´t progress any more before.
The thing is that I would assert to usually be a very reliable player. I am hoping for some system improvements for live games...
I'm glad you said your piece - I've noticed you've been in less games lately, and figured this might be the reason why.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Theoneandonly » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:28 pm

I am with you New England. My RR decreased dramatically due to live games. Even I have just 4/1331 yearly missed turns my RR is very low. I know I could have been more reliable. But most of the live games are pretty late in the evenings for me. But because I love this game I often join nevertheless. The problem is that it often takes more than an hour until we reach year two or three which extend live games extremly. Most of my mist turns I missed because I fell asleep due to the games doens´t progress any more before.
The thing is that I would assert to usually be a very reliable player. I am hoping for some system improvements for live games...

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by bo_sox48 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:16 am

Takeovers are free. You’re investing nothing other than your time. The game has already been delayed by someone else missing phases. If you think the time commitment is too much and don’t think you can play without using excused turns, you do not have to take over games. The point of removing them from the game is to ensure someone else who will actually play the position takes over, not to reset the penalty and allow for further delays.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Chaqa » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:35 pm

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=242766

The game in question turned out to be a good thing for me, but my point stands - I think if you take over a position, your excused turns should be reset - OR there should be some sort of RR benefit to taking over a position and not missing orders?

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Magnetic24 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:13 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:55 pm
Doesn't that penalize takeovers, though? I feel like if there isn't a reset on the excuses, the takeover-person should get some sort of reward at least.
Personally, the reward for me is getting a position that hasn't lost a full year. Since the new system came out, I've managed to get some really good positions due to this. But of course, it's always a give-and-take

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Chaqa » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:55 pm

Doesn't that penalize takeovers, though? I feel like if there isn't a reset on the excuses, the takeover-person should get some sort of reward at least.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Claesar » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:45 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 pm
Question - if a player uses up their excused turns and is put into civil disorder, and then someone else takes over that country, should the excused delay counter reset for the new player? It appears to me it currently does not.

Is this expected behavior or a bug?
This is expected behaviour (i.e. it does not reset) and is working as intended.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Chaqa » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 pm

Question - if a player uses up their excused turns and is put into civil disorder, and then someone else takes over that country, should the excused delay counter reset for the new player? It appears to me it currently does not.

Is this expected behavior or a bug?

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by jmo1121109 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:20 am

RR does not mean the same thing it used too, and it never will again either. Previously people who had been here forever were not really penalized for NMR's because so many phases being played reduced the impact of CD's and NMR's drastically. Now though, the phase count is the same as the number of missed turns, it's only counted for the past year. So it level sets RR between old and new players to a degree.

It is still on my radar to make adjustments to RR for live games, been sick the past couple weeks though so development has been slow.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Chaqa » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:01 pm

I hadn't considered the perceptions of RR hadn't changed. Just now, there's a live game queuing at 5 people. Normally I'd jump at it, but it has an 80% RR requirement. It seems very high - players like myself and NEFS, pillars of the live game community, can't join it. I've been creating my live games with RR in the 30-50 range for now to test the waters, and it's been fine.

@Peregrine - I normally try not to miss phases, but live games, being five minute intervals, stuff happens. Sometimes you go to use the restroom and you miss a phase, or your dog is stubborn and won't come in, or your power goes out.

For non-live games, I'm much more harsh on missing turns (and kick myself for the one I missed in. Stupid chaos game lol)

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by bo_sox48 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:38 pm

In addition to the above, one might also note that perceptions of what constitutes a good versus bad reliability rating will adjust accordingly as time goes on. There really is nothing wrong with a 70-75% or so reliability rating under these new calculations. Likewise, given that it is much easier for your reliability rating to recover than it used to be as long as you prove that you are not someone who frequently misses phases, a few blips might dip your rating in the short term but overall they do not really hurt you.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Peregrine Falcon » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:19 pm

Thing is, there's just not that many turns in one's rating yet since it came out a month ago. Wait for the full year to pass, and a couple missed turns aren't going to be as weighted.
There's also an extra temporary penalty that goes away after a month. Wait a little without missing turns and your RR will improve.

The system does exactly what it's supposed to. Don't miss turns or your RR is going to collapse.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Chaqa » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:24 pm

Similar situation to NEFS. I missed a few phases in a live game (happens) and one in a chaos game (my bad) and my RR got ranked.

Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

by Wusti » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:40 pm

New England Fire Squad wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:36 am
Wusti wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:48 am
The RR should be across all games still not an arbitrary reset date.
My point is more that I've at this point missed 4 turns out of about 700 now and its 55. It was consistently above 90 until the change. I get that I've fucked up, but man does it suck.
I know - I was 95% forever now I'm 70. That's 95% over 420+ completed games. It's wrecking Chaos, and probably World variants - its a god damned shocker all the way around.

NMRs were a fact of life forever - now every game is buggered. Whoever thought it was a good idea is mistaken.

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