M80 Game Thread

[sweetandcool]

Text

I absolutely love this. It's a fairly good argument, I would say.

My takeaway here is that I'm flattered that in your eyes I've been TOO accurate.

I think your strongest argument is that the only development I've done is read X and since then I haven't turned my eye toward another player.

My explanation is as follows:

Mechs have taken over the game and it has been moving at a breakneck pace. I haven't had a ton of time to develop new leads, but there is plenty evidence that I have been analyzing, it's just that my analysis hasn't really paid off concretely (or my scumnalysis has conveniently not been helpful).

I am burnt out and not performing as well at the moment.

Well, I think my latest analysis is going to be very helpful unless I am scumteam with ghug :D

[rdrivera2005]

Ok then do me a favor and imagine town ghug for a second. Whose reaction here is most out of character?

I think your wagon is completely town, so I can't see any out of character reaction here.

Bunny reaction is the weirdest, he completely ignored Haze and Ghug thing.

You're not at all bothered by Jamie?

I don't know why I have Jamiet high on my probably town list. Probably something about his interactions with Fox

Jamiet reaction is weird, but I was waiting for him to comeback today.

[sweetandcool]

I am looking at your vote history and through three days of play youve only ever voted bunny, bona, ghug, xcution and fox.

2 of which ultimately were mechanically outted individuals.

Honestly, I'm still not sure how D1 works (this is my 2nd game). I will stick with my basic strategy of RNG, and I will try not to get as worked up as I did last game on D1.

My RNG this game is post number. This is post 69 and consequently I will:

##VOTE Bonatogether

this was an RNG choice according to this.

Honestly, I am sick of a BunnyGo no-speak. Come on, sober up your parrot and get talking.

Or else, ##VOTE BunnyGo

this was a non poster.
then everything after this was all xcution and fox. until the ghug vote.

Curious who do you see most likely as the last two scum.

Thanks for reminding me that BunnyGo is supposed to be speaking like a parrot.

Let me dig up my last reads list that I spent a lot of time on, and I think it will mostly give you an idea of my current state of mind (things have changed a bit since then, but still).

Summary: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 93#p343993

Specific Reads:
http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 91#p343991
http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 92#p343992
http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 18#p343418
http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 19#p343419

I might have missed one or two because my reads weren't all posted at the same time. I should have gone back and posted them all together.

[brainbomb]

I think X going fairly meekly when accused (why on earth did he claim vanilla??) indicates to me Haze is scum because at the time I was townclearing Haze.

Haze is now my main suspect.

Not sure who #2 is.

Now replace Haze with Sweet

I think X going fairly meekly when accused (why on earth did he claim vanilla??) indicates to me sweet is scum because at the time I was townclearing sweet.

It sort of fits really well that x is super happy about being caught there.

[sweetandcool]

Text

Oh geeze, my old reads list has all dead or town verified at the top.

Clearly, I need to develop new suspects since I've just taken off my last major suspect, ghug.

[brainbomb]

Yea the reads list is very organized. I dont usually place alot of stock in readslists but they seem to have thought behind them, sure.

I dont take issue with any of them in particular at a cursory glance. I dont see much original thought in them or pointing to any particular data points however.

Youre coming off as extremely polite right now. Thats always nice.

I also think youre showing your true colors more now. You should know that multiple people in this game hate me, and hate how I play. They wont read my case on you and even if they do they wont buy it. Thats just how it goes.

The backtrack on ghug is uniquely timed however and that may not go unnoticed.

[brainbomb]

Dousing: My impression is that their long absence and the number of posts have prevented them from properly getting in the game. They've just made multiple obvious and terrible mistakes in their attempts at analysis. I'm also disappointed that they haven't remedied that during D2. I'm hoping they are spending the time doing some major reading and catching up.

VERDICT: At best, useless town.

Just picking one for example.
Firstly these reads are outtdated and from several phases ago. This read doesnt explain what the obvious and terrible mistakes are, or identify who found those mistakes scummy. just as an example. Reading this I dont even know what those mistakes are or whats being talked about here. I also dont know what they need to remedy. This is reachy to call dousing town based on these criteria. And this is an example, I think youve stated now that dousing is a virtual clear by this point for how he handled the xcution situation.

[ghug]

The case for ghug being Town:

During N2, ghug asks Haze to please convince them that they are town, because they feel they must vote Haze D3 and they don't like it.

Haze replies by clearly communicating (only to ghug) that they RB ghug: Link . You can continue with peterbot to see that Haze makes other very obvious comments. At this point, we can safely conclude that ghug knows that Haze RB ghug on N1 and consequently that Haze is captain.

So how do we explain Spy X's visit to Haze on N2? The most likely explanation is that it was clear to Mafia that Haze was some sort of PR and they wanted to figure out what they were.

Is there any explanation that makes sense for X to visit Haze, if his teammate ghug knows Haze is captain? Not really. There are two possibilities and they both make no sense.

1. X didn't log in on time to change their order from pointlessly scanning Haze.

REBUTTAL: X was active on the thread plenty after Haze outted themself to ghug. ghug would have had X adjust their action to be more useful.

2. Mafia wanted to verify Haze's role.

REBUTTAL: But there is absolutely no way ghug DIDN'T know Haze's role. This is pointless.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSION: I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but the way N1 played out and ghug simultaneously being RB by Haze seems to have been a coincidence.

We absolutely need to find a new wagon. ##UNVOTE

(see ghug, this is why hammering is a stupid suggestion)

Well, this is a pleasing development.

I'd add as proof that I understood what he was telling me that I immediately found an excuse to townread him over being paranoid about me.

[brainbomb]

BunnyGo: Innocuous comment about about God Thread is either a really clever Mafia touch or just showing town psychology from the get-go. Hurt me with a comment about me not being as self aware as I think ( ). Their vibe + their accident with worcej makes me think they are town.

VERDICT: Townlean

These are NAI reasons to read bunny as anything at first. and then the whole mention of bunny "accidentally" outing a PR making you think bunny is town. This is extremely generous, and it assumes the sale. The only data point you really are townleaning bunny for is outing a PR and one off the cuff remark when you reread this. Again, quite reachy and questionable imo.

[brainbomb]

Dear sweet and cool

Im not gonna go through each one of them because people will just tune me out or mute me anyway. So there is no point. I cant lead a horse to water and shove salt lick in its mouth, and put a new shoe on it all in one day At some point someone has to entertain the idea and read it for themselves.

So good luck and perhaps you will last longer in this game than me.

[sweetandcool]

Yea the reads list is very organized. I dont usually place alot of stock in readslists but they seem to have thought behind them, sure.

I dont take issue with any of them in particular at a cursory glance. I dont see much original thought in them or pointing to any particular data points however.

Youre coming off as extremely polite right now. Thats always nice.

I also think youre showing your true colors more now. You should know that multiple people in this game hate me, and hate how I play. They wont read my case on you and even if they do they wont buy it. Thats just how it goes.

The backtrack on ghug is uniquely timed however and that may not go unnoticed.

I think you have a skewed perspective on other's opinions of you. You just tend to make arguments that are confusing and sometimes nonsensical and you can be really dense. So people don't feel compelled to engage with you during those times.

Doesn't mean they hate you, or even your opinions. People are going to read your post about me because it is not dense, and isn't irrelevant.

[sweetandcool]

Dousing: My impression is that their long absence and the number of posts have prevented them from properly getting in the game. They've just made multiple obvious and terrible mistakes in their attempts at analysis. I'm also disappointed that they haven't remedied that during D2. I'm hoping they are spending the time doing some major reading and catching up.

VERDICT: At best, useless town.

Just picking one for example.
Firstly these reads are outtdated and from several phases ago. This read doesnt explain what the obvious and terrible mistakes are, or identify who found those mistakes scummy. just as an example. Reading this I dont even know what those mistakes are or whats being talked about here. I also dont know what they need to remedy. This is reachy to call dousing town based on these criteria. And this is an example, I think youve stated now that dousing is a virtual clear by this point for how he handled the xcution situation.

Part of my philosophy that I'm striving for is not to be too dense. So my reads list is pretty short on justification and I was okay with it. My intention was to respond to questions and provide support as requested. Nobody requested ):

But a ton of work went into those reads, I read the entire thread again.

[sweetandcool]

Dear sweet and cool

Im not gonna go through each one of them because people will just tune me out or mute me anyway. So there is no point. I cant lead a horse to water and shove salt lick in its mouth, and put a new shoe on it all in one day At some point someone has to entertain the idea and read it for themselves.

So good luck and perhaps you will last longer in this game than me.

This pretty sad. Please increase your self-esteem, you deserve it.

[brainbomb]

did you suppose ghug ever told anyone in wolf chat not to be afraid of me because I change my mind all the time anyway?

[sweetandcool]

did you suppose ghug ever told anyone in wolf chat not to be afraid of me because I change my mind all the time anyway?

I claim that ghug has no access to wolf chat, and my argument is incredibly strong, in my opinion.

Voting ghug today is a big mistake.

[brainbomb]

https://youtu.be/eKmRkS1os7k

[Kakarroto]

The Ballad of Kaka (part 1: Day 1)

Voting summary: votes bozo early for inactivity, never moves it.

Kaka starts D1 turned up to 11 on the shitposting scale. I won't hold it against him for his back and forth with Fox, because he was going around with ghug and Jamie and sweet too.

I'm through page 12, and he HAS prodded sweet with a couple questions, but otherwise its a massive wall of shit.

[...]

well it's called shitposting phase for a reason

[...] But *maybe* that last post shows he was just being weird for reads? [...]

why do people have it that difficult to accept that I'm weird? not saying I'm unreadable because bona has shown great aptitude to read me, but I just don't work under the normal rules of behaviour

[Kakarroto]

[...]
He finishes the day with more mech talk and advocates shooting eden with the vig.

I ... did I really? Can't remember that, but I guess after eden's retraction I was a 'bit' suspicious of his behaviour.

if you mean this post

Well, that was a roller coaster to catch up to. First instinct was that eden had to die for it with the shot, but after a bit of thought, I think the best use of it is to save it for the bomb. Well in case we don't get them on a day.

I can understand the feelings of wanting eden to be the day vote after his retraction, I had the same impulse of feeling betrayed. With the benefit of reading it later and not being able to post instantly, I had some thoughts that maybe that might not be the best to do and there might be something more. Still I was very angry at eden and highly suspicious.

But I guess this is it now with that reclaim. I suggest you make good of the time you have now still. I thought a bit about it but there is no sure way to save you.

Also I thought about if there is a better use than what brain suggested, but I guess the doubler is the best in that case. Not sure if you want to use it on him, but it's your decision.

If you have any questions towards me, shoot them, I'll answer them the best I can.

I wouldn't describe this as 'advocating to shoot eden'. Do you mean maybe another post?

also, I tried to use more words that are hinting I might be PR (including 'shooting me questions') and tried to act more like the captain, so mafia would take on this and get me instead of a PR later. That's also how the idea for 'three bullets' came to life by using words that are related to that.

Then again, no one seemed to pick up about it, maybe one or two people. I'd really be interested who had considered at N1 to (end of) N2 that I might be captain? especially N2 I tried to behave like the captain who is about to shoot a mafia (x), if our captain would've picked up that and shot x I could've even be used as a body double for N3, but that didn't pan out.

That's why I get ghug here and even when the chance is here that he was blocked mafia N1, from how he behaves I think he is more likely town. Sure, I can be wrong here, but I can totally sympathize with ghug and see me in his place right now.

[Kakarroto]

Okay, I want to get mechs straight so there is one place with all claims in it:

N1
1. Brain jailed N1 (unverified)
2. Propagandist Fox shortened day.
3. Navigator worcej scans Fox.
4. Captain Haze rb ghug.

N2
1. Enforcer Strongman Quartermaster Eden.
2. Priest damo tracks Spy Xcution to Haze.

N3
1. Haze shoots VT Bona.
2. worcej commutes damo.
3. damo Doctor worcej.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, please correct me if I got anything wrong, or forgot anything. Of course there might be a couple things that Town has done that hasn't been reported. Feel free to keep that information to yourself if you think it's better that way.

Oh yeah, I'd like an acknowledgement from worcej, damo and Haze that the list is correct, as far as things we know and have been claimed.

Damo should not be telling us what he did last night unless he knows he saved someone.

I thought I made it clear that I wasn't asking for any information that they might not want to give

I just wanted all action claims in one place. That being said, I'm realizing the last entry shouldn't be there since it is just worcej speculation. I will wait until I hear from at least one PR before I "edit" the list.

this (and the posts between) made me shiver, it ran down my back coldly (es lief mir kalt then Rücken runter, like goosebumps but much much more intense), this kinda felt like mafia trying to find out if they have to deal with a doc save next night or if they could savely choose their target.

If that would've come from anyone other then sweet, I think I would instantly mafread them for that. As for now, I think that sweet just didn't think it through, but really, really really really, don't do that ever again, this has no value for town, only for mafia.

I mean, I may be a bit hypocritical, since at the start of the day I was curious of a save too, but that's because we might've gained one more townclear. These "get the mech straight" posts however is something else.

[Kakarroto]

##vote Ghug by the way.

I mind this less with brain because he already scumread me but if you're town you're playing like garbage and you're being so lazy about the whole thing. You hadn't put any real critical thought into why scum had had the weird N1 before this fell into your lap, and you don't even want to try to have a real day?

The point is: could we have a real day? You weren't my top scumread, that's for sure and I still think you have a chance to be town but you will be a wagon every day unless we catch two scum and win. Do you want to be around at end game? I won't on your place. I respect you won't just give up but yo

This said, I have been lazy, that's true and I won't deny, I didn't gave much thought about the mechanics because there is so many combinations of actions that I didn't want to go down this rabbit hole.

Talking about rabbit, I still think Bunny have a good chance to flip scum. More then Kak. I have been scum with Kak not many time ago and I don't see the same scum behavior.

I think ghug just has to go. It may just be an unfortunate coincidence that Haze RBd ghug N1 and Mafia didn't jail worcej but ....

As far as I know it was only ghug who sussed Haze as Capt N2 and X visits Haze N2. Another coincidence?

Too much.

Ghug cannot be Agent as e would have probably taken Haze out so he must be Enforcer. But then why did the Agent not bomb Haze? Because ghug would be sole surviving scum with a link to the dead Captain so they couldn't afford to do it.

##vote ghug

if ghug can only be the enforcer, and we don't know for sure he is, we don't NEED to get him today. As stated I doubt ghug is mafia here, I mean sure, the possibility is here, but from what I've seen I still see ghug as vanilla town that tried to be useful to a PR

but yeah, as said, we should probably not forget this possibility, but try to get the other mafia, the one with a bomb! From the cases made against me, jamie presented mostly the negatives and bunny had, as far as I've seen, tried to twist a thing that he didn't quote; these two things made me suspicious. I could see tunneling townJamie just refering what is in his eyes evidence for me being mafia, but the possibility that bunny intentionally NOT quoted the part where there is a big difference in what I posted and how he presented it is quite there.

@RD if you think bunny is mafia, you should change it because even if ghug is mafia, he is only enforcer and we can't do much in the next phases. If he is town, you'd also vote for a read of yours that you are confident instead of someone that just had bad luck.

@damo I think you should vote, instead of ghug, also for your highest maf-read, because the bomber is more important than the enforcer now, right? Or do I have something overlooked that makes me wrong in my logic?