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Finished: 09 PM Wed 11 Feb 09 UTC
Babak's WTA game
1 day, 16 hours /phase
Pot: 231 D - Autumn, 1902, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
14 Feb 09 UTC I'm still confused. What reason is there for a draw? The cheater got removed.
14 Feb 09 UTC I'll play on if everyone's willing. If Churchill thinks that he was the victim of cheating, however, then I agree that the game is unfair and should be drawn. If there is no evidence of cheating in this game, then let's play on!

/unpause

/unpause
14 Feb 09 UTC He was a cheater- he was banned. I'm still for a draw.
14 Feb 09 UTC i don't how any of us were affected. no offense intended... but you are in a bad position churchill. you are unlikely to survive and your best option is to draw (personally)... i dont see how englands play in this game affected you in any unusual way... and i think you may just be taking advantage of the pause
14 Feb 09 UTC i am more than open to hearing a legitimate reason why englands play affected you. but there is no other player in this game that got banned as well so most likely england was on his own in this game... and that makes your situation as "fair" as anyone elses... if you felt you were ganged up on, that is just part of the game... and it is unsportsmanlike to take advantage of this situation for your own personal gain
14 Feb 09 UTC Churchill, listen, no one likes to lose... or to be picked on... but i'm very displeased to see a more senior member of this community take such a selfish and childish stance. I know that you are in control here, without your consent we can not continue the game.

It is not only that your are refraining from unpausing (using this "banned player" as an excuse)... but more so that you "vented" on the forums about this particular game, about how you felt that you were being treated unfairly... I'm not upset about that; what i am upset about is that i wrote a very nice and diplomatic letter to you, and a response on the forum thread "point bias"... yet i heard nothing from you... zip/notta... and in fact E-Town also wrote a response on the forum and your ignored him too.

most of the senior members in that thread in fact claimed that point bias is a "fair" element of the game... in fact E-Town noted that you attemped to gain his support using your "point stature" and E-Town made an excellent point that if your are trying to use your point stature to gain support, why should it be unfair for others to use your point stature to do the opposite?

The choice is clearly yours, but i will be vastly disapointed if your choose to deny the oppertunity to the other 5 players to continue their very first WTA game, that they have already invested almost a week into. And your only benefit will be avoiding the loss of 29 points.

vastly disaopinted


-Ox
14 Feb 09 UTC @oxsolid - the game can be forcibly unpaused by one of the mods if necessary.

From what I can see Russia was the unfortunate victim of a 4 player attack but unless there is any evidence that one of Germany/Turkey/Austria are controlled by holmeskillet then I don't know what the issue is.
14 Feb 09 UTC In that case i will withdraw my "/draw"... of course if there is evidence that homeskillet was controlling any other players in this game i will be more than glad to draw
14 Feb 09 UTC /undraw
14 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: oxsolid has withdrawn his vote for a draw.
Voted: timooo,E-Town,Churchill Remaining: Ichthys,Biggles,Skenderbeg,oxsolid.
14 Feb 09 UTC I simply don't like the situation where England + Germany have been playing against me from the very first move, and then it is told that England is a cheater. I do not want to continue this game. Maybe we could start a new private game all together?
14 Feb 09 UTC Right - the quickest way is to ask the mods to check everyone in this game for relation to the banned guy. Then we can get back to it.
14 Feb 09 UTC I'll post on the forum
14 Feb 09 UTC definitely timooo... if they were working together i'm 100% in favor of a draw... lets wait to see what the mods say
14 Feb 09 UTC Sorry if I'm being dim but I'm not sure I quite understand what's going on. Am I right in thinking England was removed from the site because of his conduct in other games, but this casts doubt over the fairness of this whole game?
14 Feb 09 UTC Hey all, I have more information that should clear this up.

E-Town is my wife. We have both been playing Diplomacy for a couple years, but just on this site recently. Obviously, we know each other, but generally don't play in the same games, and when we do, we are most competitive against each other rather than teaming up together against other players.

Turns out she opened another account, Holmeskillet, to play a joke on me. Obviously, not a good idea. It's true, I have been allied with Holmeskillet this game, but I was ignorant of the fact that it was in fact her. I guess she was going to back-stab me eventually.

I realize this is awkward, and I hate to ruin the game for the rest of the players here, so we can do 1 of 3 things.

1. Declare a draw.

2. Continue playing with Ichthys as England, and just carry on from here.

3. If the rest of you would like, we can have the mods convert Germany (and I can speak for my wife in this) and Turkey to CD, and keep the game paused until other players can take over.
14 Feb 09 UTC This is true. I'm sorry I ruined the game.
15 Feb 09 UTC Considering that I had no chance of getting along with England in the North - I was seriously disadvantages. Not to mention that a married couple are playing as three players- two of which I was bordered by.
15 Feb 09 UTC I would recommend that the bride and groom avoid playing in games together- I'm not sure it would be appreciated.
15 Feb 09 UTC Under the circumstances i wish that E-Town also be removed from this game... and that the pot be split among the rest of us. This has wasted a week of everyones time.

I agree with Churchill, since there was a multi-accounter in this game, the progress so far is null.

@Skenderbeg, it is obviously your perogative to hide your relationship with your wife, but proper ettiquite is to announce your relationship at the begining of a game.

@Churchill, i dont understand why you've continued to ingore me in private threads, public threads, and the forums. If i've offended you i'm sorry. Had this new information not surfaced, i would have stood by my decision, that no draw was necessary for all the reasons previously stated. In this new light it is clear that this game should end. I hope that you do not consider my remarks as a personal attack. But i would have appreciated it if you continued to communicate with me through this time of disagreement.
15 Feb 09 UTC What a mess. I agree that the game should end - no one is going to enjoy it even if we found a way to make it work.

This was my first game on the site and I'm now pretty disillusioned. Does this sort of thing happen often?
15 Feb 09 UTC No it doesn't. There is one main offense here: multi-accounting. The use of more than one account is against site policy. Another facet is the relationship between the married couple. It is heavily frowned on in Diplomacy to play with a relationship (especially one as close as a marriage). These two combined provide quite a distortion to the game.

As the the issue of removing players from the game- I am not concerned, the profit would only be 7ish points... It's not about the points.

Let's just draw so I can have this off my screen.
15 Feb 09 UTC /draw
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: oxsolid has voted for a draw.
Voted: timooo,oxsolid,E-Town,Churchill Remaining: Ichthys,Biggles,Skenderbeg.
15 Feb 09 UTC /draw
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Biggles has voted for a draw.
Voted: timooo,Biggles,oxsolid,E-Town,Churchill Remaining: Ichthys,Skenderbeg.
15 Feb 09 UTC /draw
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Skenderbeg has voted for a draw.
Voted: timooo,Biggles,Skenderbeg,oxsolid,E-Town,Churchill Remaining: Ichthys.
15 Feb 09 UTC Well that was a fun. :P Shame it ended the way it did.
15 Feb 09 UTC /draw
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Ichthys has voted for a draw.
Voted: Ichthys,timooo,Biggles,Skenderbeg,oxsolid,E-Town,Churchill Remaining: . The vote has passed, and will be acted on within 5 minutes.
15 Feb 09 UTC /unpause
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Ichthys has withdrawn his vote to unpause.
Voted: oxsolid Remaining: Ichthys,timooo,Biggles,Skenderbeg,E-Town,Churchill.
15 Feb 09 UTC I think u might need to unpause it for the draw to go through
15 Feb 09 UTC /unpause
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: timooo has voted to unpause.
Voted: timooo,oxsolid Remaining: Ichthys,Biggles,Skenderbeg,E-Town,Churchill.
15 Feb 09 UTC /unpause
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Biggles has voted to unpause.
Voted: timooo,Biggles,oxsolid Remaining: Ichthys,Skenderbeg,E-Town,Churchill.
15 Feb 09 UTC /unpause
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Ichthys has voted to unpause.
Voted: Ichthys,timooo,Biggles,oxsolid Remaining: Skenderbeg,E-Town,Churchill.
15 Feb 09 UTC /unpause
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Skenderbeg has voted to unpause.
Voted: Ichthys,timooo,Biggles,Skenderbeg,oxsolid Remaining: E-Town,Churchill.
15 Feb 09 UTC /unpause
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: E-Town has voted to unpause.
Voted: Ichthys,timooo,Biggles,Skenderbeg,oxsolid,E-Town Remaining: Churchill.
15 Feb 09 UTC /unpause
15 Feb 09 UTC GameMaster: Churchill has voted to unpause.
Voted: Ichthys,timooo,Biggles,Skenderbeg,oxsolid,E-Town,Churchill Remaining: . The vote has passed, and will be acted on within 5 minutes.
06 Mar 11 UTC This is a test to see if this works for messages
let's bounce in the black see what you think if we don't form a stalemate line we're going to lose
06 Mar 11 UTC this was my first game on the site after playing with babak. turkey and england were the same player. It was really annoying because it forced a draw. Lame. Lame. Lame.
06 Mar 11 UTC this was my first game on the site after playing with babak. turkey and england were the same player. It was really annoying because it forced a draw. Lame. Lame. Lame.
06 Mar 11 UTC this was my first game on the site after playing with babak. turkey and england were the same player. It was really annoying because it forced a draw. Lame. Lame. Lame.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Austria
oxsolid (135 D)
Drawn. Bet: 29 D, won: 33 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
France
timooo (227 D)
Drawn. Bet: 29 D, won: 33 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
Germany
Skenderbeg (166 D)
Drawn. Bet: 29 D, won: 33 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
Russia
Churchill (2280 D)
Drawn. Bet: 29 D, won: 33 D
4 supply-centers, 3 units
Turkey
E-Town (1369 D)
Drawn. Bet: 29 D, won: 33 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
England
Ichthys (575 D)
Drawn. Bet: 28 D, won: 33 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Italy
Biggles (421 D)
Drawn. Bet: 29 D, won: 33 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
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