Finished: 06 PM Tue 28 Jun 11 UTC
Featured Private It takes two to tango
2 days /phase
Pot: 1919 D - Autumn, 1912, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: If I make a promise like that based on integrity, I keep it.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: I fundamentally disagree with you Austria and with France.

I can go through my game records and find a number of players who I offered a survive to, to whom I kept my word, and let them survive. That kind of promise, to me, is different from such things as "Shall we DMZ the Channel?".

Clearly we have different approaches to the game and to integrity in general - but there's no need to make baseless assumptions that I am either not a good player or that I can't be classy simply because I have a lot of points and a high ghost rating.

More fool you that you don't feel yourself able to play with a sense of class and still earn enough points to play in games like this one.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: Well, in that case I'm very interested to find out who you are. But if it's true what France said, you made some mistakes, such as not doing what he told you, and leaking the alliance. Then you really have to blame this to yourself.

But maybe France is lying to us...
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: It is a difference of perspective. To me, a good player is someone who always has the end result in mind, and tries his best to achieve it. That's what I do myself, and that's what I expect from others. So, offering a deal like that (I'll let you survive, because I like you) is contrary to the spirit of the game (in my opinion).

But, I am still learning this game. Suffice to say, I am *not* top 20 GR. Maybe there is another way to play the game, which yields better results in the long run.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: It wasn't a deal based on liking. It was a deal based on mutual need and vouched on France's integrity as a classy player.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: I'm Sargmacher.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: That's weird, because so am I.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2JYc_jWIDQ
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: This is the song that represents my country in the Eurovision Song Contest next week.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwhMsJQl2ps

This is the song representing France.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: At least this France is 'classy' :)
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: No, I am Sargmacher.

Etc...

Anyway, good game. I would be happy to hear from Russia/Austria/Italy what happened behind the scenes, once this game is over (or now, to satisfy my curiousity).
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: I make it a general rule not to engage in shit flinging in global when I play. But I will say this. I'll be happy to comment EOG though.

I don't know what all of you are talking about, but will the real Sargmancher please stand up?
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: I will also say this: Whoever actually *is* Sargmancher is completely irrelevant. Your talents at diplomacy have less than zero bearing on the point at hand, which is the question, "Were your tactics in this game successful?". If you are England or Turkey, I think we can all agree, no offense, that that answer is no. If you're any other country, that question remains to be answered. So lets stop the attacks, etc., and just play some diplomacy.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: You are totally right, Russia. I fucked up this game in a lot of ways (including bad moves/lack of proactive communication), and this is why I really await EOG statements to learn from this game. I will not say more, or I will be in danger to reveal my identity and alter the game result after I am out.
05 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1904: Well, all I can say is that England is right that he and I have different definitions of "classy", "keeping your word", as well as the point of this game. but I too will point out those differences in the EOG.

nice discussion though.
08 May 11 UTC Spring, 1905: Has anyone heard from Germany? I'd like to avoid another NMR if we can... I haven't heard from him this phase and he hasn't submitted orders.
08 May 11 UTC Spring, 1905: Well thankfully he put in his orders
08 May 11 UTC Spring, 1905: So I guess no one but France heard from him? :)
08 May 11 UTC Spring, 1905: I heard from him, now. I just wanted to make sure we didn't have another NMR coming, and that we'd have time to organize another pause if we did.

Sorry guys, especially to Germany. :-)
19 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Just to let you all know, I'll be at my cousins graduation this weekend and will have limited time for Diplomacy. I'm voting pause, and we can pause if you all would like. It's really up to you.

This is my only game, and it would be nice to not have to log in, but I can if you all don't feel like pausing, or if Germany continues to ignore this game. ;-)
19 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: pause is fine by me. I have a flight on Saturday and a full schedule on Sunday so i'd prefer not to have to worry about this game as well.
19 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: A pause is fine. I would go even further. If we don't hear from Germany (and he isn't eliminated after this turn), maybe ask a mod to force-pause? We'll have to agree globally to force-unpasue on Monday.
19 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: that can work too. but shouldn't he be CD after this turn? or is he putting in 'hold' orders?
19 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Well I actually won't be back home until Tuesday night, but whenever is fine really. It's your call.

I'm fine with a force pause, I'm fine without one.
19 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: And I think he's just putting in "hold" orders.

Well he's not putting them in, but he's checking the game, so he won't CD.
20 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Alternatively, Austria or Italy (or both) could just let this phase run out. That would go a long way.
20 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Do u prefer to pause or finalize retreats then pause?

I also agree with russia, letting retreats and builds take the full 4 days can work as well.
20 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Let's not bother pausing. We can just let the phases run.
20 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Well, I have made a decision. Italy can drag the phase as long as he wants. Neither the Italian retreat or mine will be very surprising.
20 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Well Germany has voted pause, so France can pause if he wants to. I'd almost prefer that.
20 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Russia, your wish is my command =P

Since G did pause, I am guessing he can also unpause, but I'm sure mods will force unpause on tue for us if we ask nicely.

Meanwhile if AGIF vote unpause, R can put in his/her vote when he gets back.
24 May 11 UTC Autumn, 1906: Waiting on you Germany.

(I actually had ample access to internet this weekend after all, but it was nice not having to log in.)
04 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1908: I would like to get out of this game as quickly as possible, and it looks like you're making that possible for me. Thanks for your help!
04 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1908: Hahaha. No hard feelings, Italy, eh?
13 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1909: guys - sorry I was away most of the weekend with the gf so could not respond. will write you messages later today
16 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1909: And we're about to find out if France will solo!
18 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1910: Dear all,

I plan to go on vacation for two weeks, starting june 24th. I don't know if the game will still be running by then, but I'd like to request a pause if it is.

Is that okay, or should I find a sitter?
18 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1910: Fine by me.
18 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1910: I can sit for you ;)
18 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1910: whatever works for you. i can vote pause now
18 Jun 11 UTC Spring, 1910: Thanks, guys!
23 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1911: My vacation is postponed until Monday. I can continue playing until then.

The people organising my trip are somewhat chaotic, so I don't know when I will actually leave. Please keep up your pause vote.

Or, France can just vote draw :p
23 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1911: I've explained our arrangement to him. He can waste time playing for centers if he really wants, but this is a draw.
24 Jun 11 UTC Autumn, 1911: I'd really like to get this to a draw before Austria has to leave. Can we finalize?
27 Jun 11 UTC Let me apologise in advances for my awkward timing.

Over the last few turns, I have been convinced that a two-way is impossible to achieve. To take and hold Berlin, I need more armies than I can muster. To take and hold Tunis is possible with the forces I have now, but France won't let me.

More importantly, Russia won't disband his Turkish units. This means I have to spend at least a force of three to outmaneuver him. I cannot do that without risking the stalemate line.

Therefore, France, please vote draw. I don't know whether a game can be drawn when it's paused. If not, I'd be all in favor of mod intervention.
27 Jun 11 UTC yes it can be drawn ;)

good game Austria and Russia. Sorry for delaying Russia, but Austria thought it possible for us to achieve a 2way and I wanted to give it a real shot. but I agree with him that the risk of one of us solo-ing is a bit high... he also needed to build a southern fleet and you took that opportunity away from him.

I do feel if I had extended the game a bit longer, there WAS a slight potential for me to convince him to still go for it (by giving him tunis etc) but the chance was too slight for it to be worth the time commitment.

great game all - particularly to Germany and Italy wh played very well but simply got out-numbered despite their amazing efforts.

good game all.
27 Jun 11 UTC Good game indeed. Congrats to Austria and France, and really to everyone. This was a great group, and like Babak said, everyone played very well.

Far and beyond one of the best games I've played in a long time, although right now I can barely remember anything about the game prior to Austria's (in my opinion) ill-advised stab.

I do have one question though: Had I disbanded in the south, would you have pushed for the two way bas? I felt like you were trying to play me for a fool there - it was obvious I was no longer important if I disbanded one of those units, as I saw it.
27 Jun 11 UTC Oh, and Austria, was the move to Ionian in that last phase *actually* a mistake? :-P
11 Jul 11 UTC Thank you for playing, it was awesome. It's a long text, but I hope it's entertaining.

This has been the best game I have ever played on this website. I was especially impressed by Babak's play. You took control of the game in 1901 (moving Mao-Iri was a real killer), and never let it slip. My favorite part is where you intentionally mispelled your own name in order to pretend to be someone else. It didn't work, but it sure was funny.

There are two things I am proud of in this game. The first thing is not to stab prematurely. I could have stabbed Russia from 1901 to 1908, so basically the entire time. I kept my cool, telling myself the right opportunity would present itself sooner or later.

The second thing I'm proud of is that I came up with a really great lie. In Autumn 1906, I had forced Russia to give me Con. France was asking me to move Bul-Con, to prevent Russia from picking up double builds.
At the time, I had trouble with the Italian army in Alb. He offered to disband it, if I "moved Bul-Con and to gave him an accurate report on Russia's moves".
So everyone is asking me to move Bul-Con, and it gains me a center. But then Italy adds: "If you give me misinformation that works to your benefit, I'm not going to buy it".

So I had a problem. I had to move Bul-Con, that was certain. But if Russia moved Con-Smy, it's pretty obvious he and I planned the move together, and Italy knows I have cheated him.

I think my solution was pretty neat. I waited until 4 hours before deadline, and sent the following.
"(To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1906: Russia and I have talked a lot before this phase, but lately I haven't heard of him. Must be something regarding to the pause he's requesting.

Russia intended to move Ank-Smy. I have requested that he move Con-Smy, so I can pick up Con, but he hasn't confirmed or denied that. I feel I should move Bul-Con, at least to prevent him from gaining double builds, and to give you a chance to retain your center.

Sorry to inform you this late, but I have been waiting for a Russian reply. I have to get to bed now. I am truly sorry I cannot be of more assistance."
I went to bed, and the next morning I was in Con, and Italy actually thanked me for it!

If there is one thing I regret about this game, it is that I didn't try to stab Russia in Spring 1908. I would have gained Sev and Mos, and there were no Russian units at all to retaliate. Unfortunately, Italy decided to give up around that time, and I could not persuade him to try a new plan. Here my diplomacy failed me.

Let's also address a couple of your questions/remarks. My stab was not ill-advised. If anything, it was belated by one year. I never took any risk whatsoever, and I put Russia in a position where one mistake would be fatal. He didn't make said mistake, so the game petered out to a three-way.

I was playing for the two-way, of course. Had Russia disbanded any of the two southern units, it'd have been within reach.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

France
Babak (26982 D (B))
Drawn. Bet: 250 D, won: 640 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
Austria
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
Drawn. Bet: 250 D, won: 640 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
Russia
(1304 D)
Drawn. Bet: 250 D, won: 640 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
England
Sargmacher (0 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 250 D
Italy
pastoralan (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 250 D
Germany
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
Defeated. Bet: 169 D
Turkey
Baskineli (100 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 250 D
Civil Disorders
Ebay (966 D)Germany (Autumn, 1903) with 3 centres.
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