Finished: 09 AM Thu 11 Feb 21 UTC
Private 2020 World Cup Group B Public Press
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1911, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Unranked
3 excused missed turn
Game drawn
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: @England I wouldn't mind Hel-Den, and even North Sea-Norway if you're willing. Especially if you're waiving builds, we won't need those there to convoy anything
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: Appreciate the moveset England, looks like it turned out well all around. Hopefully can have this cleaned up now in a year or so
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: England I'm assuming you missed those two requests from France and it wasn't out of bad faith? Also assuming you will waive your build again?

Any requests about builds from either of you. Likely a fleet in Smyrna and army in Ankara so I can convoy over to Greece. After those builds I would have no need to build any more units I don't think. Again, France I will be happy to keep the Ionian open, and happy to ACTUALLY bounce in TyrS this turn if you want lol, or we can just leave it as is
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: @Turkey those builds sound fine, and I'd be happy to bounce in TyrS!
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: Look at the open Moscow, just waiting for that Ukrainian slip.
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: And France without the generosity of a build. I think you'd both be wise to petition for a no-build phase again. However, look at the horrible exposure on the board. Yikes.
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: Yes will continue to waive builds. I didn't see France's request either. I'll talk that request over with my team and see if it's one that can be safely granted
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: I've readied up my wait/postpone build btw
03 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1909: Yeah those builds from you are fine by me btw
04 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1910: @Turkey I've ordered W Med to TyrS in anticipation of a bounce.

@England I'd say Hel-Den is about as risk-free as it gets, and it leaves fewer pink units touching Holland which would make me more comfortable
04 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1910: The bounce is so ordered France
England, would appreciate a move from UKR-GAL if possible. And obviously Liv can cover War? Also if you make it to Vie before me, I don't necessarily see the harm in it, all depends on how the board plays out.
04 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1910: You got it re:both
04 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1910: Thanks @England. Much appreciated
04 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1910: Mind if I vacation on the Black Sea? I love Rumania this time of year.
05 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1910: Good stuff
05 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1910: Its a great place for the end of an empire, I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think any of your units can swim...
05 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: @Turkey, I think you need to allow me to keep one unit/centre in case things go awry. There's some foul pink odour wafting in from the north. Something isn't adding up.
05 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: @Austria

"UKR-GAL if possible. And obviously Liv can cover War? Also if you make it to Vie before me, I don't necessarily see the harm in it, all depends on how the board plays out."

Not sure what you're confused about. My orders were essentially public
05 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: Who's confused, England? I'm just having a little fun here.
06 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: @Turkey let me know what you want me to order and I'll order it
06 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: Thanks England, if you don't mind tapping BUD that would be lovely. Don't think I can take anything else this turn, but we should be able to close up shop next year all things considered.
France, TyrS bounce is ordered.
06 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: @Turkey bounce is ordered from my end as well
06 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: From me too.
06 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: So ordered.
07 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: Readied
07 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: Decisions
07 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: England, I will waive my builds if you waive your builds again? Act of good faith :)
07 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: You got it
07 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: I’ll waive my builds as well
07 Feb 21 UTC Autumn, 1910: I hope y'all don't mind if I don't waive. Actually, I am waving to you all. The old one gun salute!!! :)
08 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1911: Bounce in TyrS has once again been ordered
08 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1911: England do you mind supporting Serbia-Bud? Also I'm moving Sev-Mos just because my army wants to visit the Kremlin and say hello to the Tsar before he is overthrown by the Bolsheviks
08 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1911: Hey, the Bolsheviks are all speking Turkish by now, and the Tsar has become a ghost that haunts the Habsburgs.
08 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1911: By the way, boo, Archduke!
08 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1911: @Turkey so ordered.
09 Feb 21 UTC Spring, 1911: Well, off to game theory discussion, if you guys are up to it?
I think the Archduke has played well, but fell to a very important psychological trap in Diplomacy: "Turkey has been such a loyal ally, he would never betray me". It was pretty clear that after I was dead he was next to be wiped out, as, like I've pointed out several times, he would be left without a corner to allow proper defense. If he was going on with reducing the draw, he should have demanded to get at the very least Moscow and one of {StP, Sev}, but that, of course, wouldn't be very practical. The Sultan did extremely well on persuading Austria to go against common sense, while I wasn't persuasive enough albeit I did see the picture pretty clearly (and I also was a bit slow to put my defenses in place before the stab). Thoughts?
09 Feb 21 UTC Ready up support holds and let's end this game?
09 Feb 21 UTC Orders in
09 Feb 21 UTC I think Austria did himself in with a combination of some very annoyingly paranoid press and giving up Moscow.

The annoying press from Austria seemingly worrying about every arrangement definitely got on my nerves which is why around late 1905ish I heavily committed with press to his elimination without making it obvious. Pretty much every message I sent regarding Moscow basically declared that it was to be Turkish because I knew if I could get one more army build for Turkey and leverage Moscow and Sev to get Warsaw and Ukraine that eventually all the dominoes would tumble in the order I wanted. Turkey was surprisingly hesitant to take the deal and honestly I'm not sure why, but in the end it all worked out.

The reason why giving up Moscow was tactically devastating was basically covered above, but the reason why it was so killer diplomatically was that had he not given it to Turkey he could have kept Turkey on two armies since that build was the one that allowed him to get to three armies. And at the point where he only has two armies the stab looks much less appetizing because he could only kill you at that point then with me and France making much deeper plays into the heart of your territory which makes the risk of accidentally ceding a solo if me or France stab the other other for the win that much more worrisome.

But yeah once he got his third army and I was in Warsaw it was really all a matter of going through the motions.
09 Feb 21 UTC Russia, I agree, although to be completely honest I was very happy with the 4-way draw and was not too keen to get rid of the Archduke. However you are right about Moscow and St.P, without a corner to back into Austria is always the easiest player to get rid of and it is a hard game to play if your remaining players are England, Turkey and France (I hate playing Austria in gunboat for example). If Italy was still involved then Austria has another power that has no corner either.

Still, I think the archduke made good moves. On your side Russia, I think being too cozy with England cost you, as I was willing to go full on with the RAT from beginning to end, but with no advance in the north it seemed like it was not possible.

Overall, I think being a timid game the main benefactors were the ones with corner positions. In the other PP game they ended with a 7 way draw, which is very comical
09 Feb 21 UTC That game was an abomination and should never be spoken of
10 Feb 21 UTC Can you put your draw vote up so we can end the game Turkey? Great game to all and congrats on a 3WD.
10 Feb 21 UTC My post-game analysis is I didn't read the board well enough, I was enamoured, and I knew I was screwed which amounts to my non-arguments and protestations. I should have known better to assume good intentions out of an AT. Had Italy been an active participant right from the get-go, I am sure the outcome would have been different.
10 Feb 21 UTC Yes, if we had an Italy from the start, we probably wouldn't have had a RAT!
10 Feb 21 UTC It was a nice game anyway.
10 Feb 21 UTC I liked your game Austria, if it wasn't for the tourney I would have stuck to the 4wd. But it was a great game, good chatter all around and quite diplomatic!
10 Feb 21 UTC Good game, folks! This is my first ever public press game and I quite enjoyed the dynamic. A fun change of pace
10 Feb 21 UTC I thought the real intrigue of public press came into play when @England and I were haggling over order of operations in the north. In a hidden press game we could have had a much livelier discussion, but it was so important that we project unity, because if Austria and Turkey had thought we were breaking up, they would have had no reason to stab Russia
10 Feb 21 UTC Good game all; keep an eye on FlyingBoat throughout the rest of the tourney....;)

ANyway, of the 3 (FP, GB, PP) it is my least preferred format but I think it might be one that I pursue more often. It's a lot more delicate, and I think we spent the first couple of years dancing around significant issues.

I did like the level of communication between myself, Turkey, and Russia to start. I think some alternate moves in the north may have guaranteed the RAT a lot longer life. I can't really go back that far in the chat but I want to take a look at the ordered moves to see where RAT went off the rails.

Anyway, good luck in the remainder of the tournament. It's doubtful Eastern Canada moves on, but it was fun.
10 Feb 21 UTC If it's any consolation Austria, I'm originally from Toronto, so I will bring through the Canadian heritage for the rest of the tourney if you don't advance

I think the RAT went off the rails when there wasn't the desire to settle for a 5wd. I think that really ruined it for me (and my team agreed), that we would definitely want to get more points if possible. Again, if Russia was amicable to moving against England that may have made the difference, as I was geared up to take on France. But alas, good game all around, really enjoyed it! And I do enjoy the dynamic of Public Press, it is really quite entertaining and difficult.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
desdemona22 (301 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
14 supply-centers, 11 units
England
TheFlyingBoat (1282 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
11 supply-centers, 9 units
France
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Italy
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Germany
ubercacher16 (203 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Austria
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Russia
JesusPetry (258 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Civil Disorders
quiiet (100 D)Italy (Autumn, 1903) with 2 centres.
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