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Finished: 06 PM Thu 10 Dec 20 UTC
Might is Right
1 day /phase
Pot: 280 D - Spring, 1912, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
28 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: We should at least eradicate italy first...
28 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Lol idk why i said eradicate, sounded a bit severe
28 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I'm not willing to give my centers to France (no offense, France). If Turkey takes my three centers they'll have thirteen, add Sev, Bud, Warsaw and Moscow and they're one away from a solo. The last center for a solo--St. Pete, Munich or Tunis--is plausible.
28 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Music to my ears! Although i must be honest i doubt ill be able to reach a18scs.

I would also like to say if we draw it will include Russia.
29 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Oh yes please :-)
30 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Always draw set
01 Dec 20 UTC Spring, 1909: It looks like...the end
02 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1909: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
02 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1909: Ffs sorry everyone
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Gg see you next time
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: GG Russia.

Let me make VERY clear my position, France and Turkey: If I see France build a fleet in Brest, I will support Italy's army in Tyrol to Munich and force this to be a 4-way draw. I am outraged and disappointed at this amateur-hour bush-league attempt to cast aspersions on ME that *I* am the reason why this game is not going to a stable draw. It's quite obvious that one or both of you still harbors foolish dreams of a solo win, and I will punish you for that by making your inevitable draw even less rewarding than it is now.

I have waived builds that could have been used to betray my ally.
I have ceded a center to my ally in the interest of maintaining center parity.
I am not the problem here.

France tells me that Turkey has offered him Rome in exchange for building a fleet in Brest. France also tells me Turkey has repeatedly reneged on commitments RE: Italy this game. Why would France ever believe Turkey in the first place? Either Turkey is lying outright and will never give him Rome, or Turkey is being deceptive and offering to give him Rome now, and take it later. If you're in France's shoes and Turkey has been lying to you for years now, those are your only two options. That France doesn't think so leads me to believe that FRANCE is lying to ME.

And Turkey doesn't believe I'm a solo threat in good faith. Turkey is just angling to get more centers out of me. He's hoping that a fleet build will cause tensions that lead me to abandon my front out east. He's obviously lying about his fears that I will solo. No rational player can look at my behavior viz-a-viz France and believe I'm trying to win this game. And Turkey is a rational player.

I won't be abandoning my eastern front. The draw is assured. The only question is size. And if you two continue to act like this is your first game of Diplomacy then I'll punish you for it by forcing you to accept a 4-way draw.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Okay, i have never actually lied to france (other than the go i stabbed russia) , although we have had lengthly debates our relationship has always been fairly honest.

Germany on your part i cant say the same

Here is a direct quote from Germany:
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Are you good with taking Warsaw and cutting Ukraine?

Tyl S Tri -> Ven ordered
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: There is no logical reason to lie unless you plan to solo.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Sure there is. You blew off my proposal to finish off Russia. You were only focused on "me me me" - you focused only on my offer to support you to Venice, ignoring that it was CONTINGENT on you cutting Ukraine (which you DID NOT DO) so I could take Moscow. You obviously still thought you could solo, so I lied to you to take the centers you needed to solo and make you face the music. I don't have to be honest with you all the time to be playing for a draw if I think lying to you is the best way to make you realize it's draw time.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: If you are STILL dense enough to think I could solo... and this goes for ANYONE...

Count to 18.

I'm at 11. So I need seven more. I need all of Britain, I need Brest, Paris, and two of Portugal/Spain/Marseilles. I need seven armies to hold the line against Turkey, so that leaves one army and three fleets against all of France's units, assuming F/T work together to stop me. France has a full year's notice before I can even be threatening his centers. It's. Just. Not. Happening.

Never MIND that I gave away London freely.
Never MIND that I've been waiving builds that would let me sneak attack France and eliminate that notice.
Give me NO credit for that if you want - you SHOULD give me credit, but let's say you won't. How am I getting to 18? Count them out. If you can't then you don't seriously believe I can solo.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Firstly i told you this earlier, that you could support yourself into moscow and so there was little/no reason to cut Ukraine and id rather support myself into sev. Admittedly this was before the deal we made regarding tyr- venice and warsaw, but i was always open and i would say that my not keeping that promise says far less about any intentions to solo, than you taking Warsaw.

Im not sure if Germany knew about france not supporting holding venice, im hoping france could tell me?

I kind of take it as an insult that anyone believes i am still soloing...
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: You never once said anything about my ability to support myself to Moscow, about any need to cut Ukraine, or about supporting yourself to Sevastopol. Lying while making a fuss about someone else lying is a horrible look.

You're still dodging my point about counting to 18 because you're full of shit and you know it. You know I'm not soloing. You're just stirring the pot with France and France, inexplicably, was taking you seriously enough to suggest that it was sensible to build a fleet in Brest.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: The fleet in brest was not my idea, so instead of accusing me of stirring the pot, stop acting like someone who is about to solo.

I mean the builds will reveal a little, but in terms of you getting 18scs:

You already have 11
There are 3 very exposed scs, especially given the surreptitious westward movement of your fleets.

After that i really doubt you would get many more, which is why i am confused by your moves.

If you want my speculation about how youd plan to go from there:

You would hope my fleets would tie frances southern fleets down, leaving you with an overload and an opportunity for brest / spain and a pincer like movement.

I know this is a stretch, which is why i must again state that i am so confused by the lies you've been telling and taking of promised scs (which you proposed were mine, not me).

You talk about stirring, when you are the one to send an extremely aggressive, inflammatory message on global chat
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: So in other words you can't even conceivably count to 18 for me here, you can't spell out how lying to you advances my alleged goal of soloing (while I have made it very clear how it advances my goal of drawing), you know that I'm not trying to solo, but you're still lying about what I said to you, and you don't get why I would go to Global to sort out a claim France made to me about your press with him? It's pretty clear that at least one of you two is lying here, maybe both, so obviously I'd go to Global and figure out who.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Bonsoir,

As a player, I rarely use the public box. In that, this game has been a novelty.

I had to defend my actions against England (metagaming) and now I have to explain myself again.

I thought I was better at understanding people. I can see I have still much to learn.

So be it.

First, Germany, and I start with you because it is thanks to our alliance that I am still here.

My message to you was a question. I now realize that I did not use the proper words. I am not native in English. It does make a difference. But my private message to you was formulated as a question.

Obviously, I implied that you would agree. Not because I am forcing you but because our rapport has been excellent so far.

Now, I understand that your answer is no.

Duly noted. Let's move on.

So moving forward and in the spirit of finishing this game quickly what should we do together to reach peace in Europe?

What are the concrete steps you see?

And this question is for both of you.

Merci!
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: As far as im concerned france told a lie by saying i proposed the fleet in brest. I haven't lied about what you said to me (i literally copy and pasted it). And as for the main issue which is about your bizzare set of moves, well that is exactly the point:
They make no sense.

Your argument is that you want to stop me soloing when i can literally repeat what you said back to you:
"how could i conceivably get18scs?"

Rome, naples, Moscow, warsaw would get me to 16.

Anything west of italy would be locked off, st Petes would be supported by your fleets and my taking munich is a ridiculous reach.

Please stop spouting about me trying to solo. We will see in a phase or 2 whether

A) this was a pure miscommunication and distrust (funnily enough similar to cause of ww1)

B) i am infact going for a near impossible solo

C) whether you are deluded and soloing.


C) whether you are
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Turkey, you're missing my point. I know you're not able to solo. Quite frankly, unless France and I had a titanic breakdown of trust (orders of magnitude greater than my alarm here), your solo chances were DOA from the moment you stabbed Russia. Even if I'd never advanced beyond St. Petersburg and Sweden, as France initially asked and as I initially intended, you'd have been stuck at 16.

The problem is that I'm not sure *you* understood that. And I want this game wrapped up since it's essentially over. So I made my move, I lied to you, and I took the centers that you knew were essential to a solo. I saw it as bringing you to the table and making you face the music.
This argument doesn't apply to me because all my build waiving and center transferring should make it very clear that I understand I can't solo.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: France... did Turkey actually offer you Rome in exchange for fleet Brest build? Because Turkey is explicitly stating he didn't tell you that, and it's not the kind of thing that could be accidentally communicated. I'm inclined to believe Turkey is lying since he lied about what I told him earlier in this exchange. But it would matter quite a lot to me if you were lying to fish for my consent to that build, because that would make it unambiguous that you're the one stirring up dissent and not Turkey.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Germany:

Mine and france conversation went more or less like this:

France: i want to build in brest in case of a German solo

Me: take Rome if you need the build. We will come back to naples once we see how this phase came out
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: I said france lied about me propsing the fleet in brest. However i did, more or less, say he could use rome to facilitate it. I feel like a lot of the word twisting is unintentional here, and when i say lie, miscommunication is probably more accurate than a conscious lie but anyway
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Apparentlywaiving a build shows you are drawing, so i am waving ONE.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Two seconds, let me reread my messages to Turkey
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Turkey is not wrong and I was proposing the fleet in Brest.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: I can now remember my thinking:

Let's dramatize the chances and will of Germany's solo to get that game out of the way.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: So make it believable, I need to put a fleet in Brest.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: I thought Germany would not mind as I had moved my fleet in MAO to NA.

It was just a case of replacing it.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Obviously I was wrong.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: *the agreement of Germany and I stipulated I could keep a fleet in MAO.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: I hope it does clarify the question around Brest. If not please ask more questions.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Bless gucci calm all is good in the world.

*although i did propose the thought of Germany soloing*

But i dont want to steal frances shine.

As enjoyable as this conversation was im about go out and probably drink a few too many beverages.

2 days time and this game will be drawn, 93 points each and we all leave happily ever after.

Sincere apology to russia, you were a very good ally and player. I betrayed you at ultimatly no avail to the result of the game.

Ironically at the time i did intend to solo
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: France, the reason you were being given London in the first place, aside from keeping center parity, was that you need a fifth fleet, IN MARSEILLES, to hold the line in the Med. In fact, I in no uncertain terms spelled out the orders that would allow you to hold the line with that build.

If you ALSO want to keep a fleet in MAO, and use a build in Rome to fund it, that's fine by me. But I am going to have a problem if you renege on the original terms AFTER taking London.

Regardless, it seems there was a bit of fast-and-loose negotiation that implied things that weren't intended, and that we are actually on the same page. I'm glad we got that sorted out. I expect to see France build F Marseilles, I will build A Berlin and waive my other build (contrary to my previous threat at the beginning of this exchange). Turkey can do whatever he wants, Turkish builds never matter at this stage anyway lol, the one thing I hate about playing Turkey is that you reach a point where your centers are so far from the action that your builds are pointless. But if you want to waive that's cool, if you don't that's cool too.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Well, here Turkey I beg to differ, you may have rationally understood you could not make it but some parts of you were reluctant to admit it.

In that I agree with Germany.
06 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1910: Ffs i thought we had ended this conversation. Anyway soon i will be freed from my mobile.

But quickly, as i told Germany, i just do not like feeling as if i am being taken advantage of, no matter whether it is practical or not. Its a principle of mine, that whatever deal i partake in i get the same out of it as the other person.
07 Dec 20 UTC Spring, 1911: To keep the momentum, I will keep on posting publicly.

Turkey, please take Naples, I will enter Rome but keep my fleets where they are.

Do we have a deal?
07 Dec 20 UTC Spring, 1911: Yeah cool, you can take the tyr sea if you want, im chill
07 Dec 20 UTC Spring, 1911: Could tunis support east med - ionian?
07 Dec 20 UTC Spring, 1911: Yes of course
07 Dec 20 UTC Spring, 1911: Done.
07 Dec 20 UTC Spring, 1911: I hate it when everyone gets along so well :)

gg all.
07 Dec 20 UTC Autumn, 1911: GG
09 Dec 20 UTC When I creates the game I knew I would have some serious contenders. However, it was even better than what I expected.

It was a pleasure to play with you all with almost no interruption.

See you around.

GG

And Might is Right!
09 Dec 20 UTC GGs all, was fun!
09 Dec 20 UTC Sorry russia, when i stabbed i intended to solo. I genuinely feel bad that you didnt manage to draw.
11 Dec 20 UTC Waiting for you (and for revenge) at the Nexus Season 6 Tournament
Full press 24h/round, anonymous, multi platforms
All info here

https://discord.gg/pMPq6Tx

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
cardboardbox (651 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 93 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
Germany
President Eden (2721 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 93 D
11 supply-centers, 10 units
France
MPC (807 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 93 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
England
user1981 (619 D)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
Italy
hthefourth (512 D)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
Austria
Calaf (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
Russia
Michelone (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
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