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Finished: 09 PM Wed 18 Nov 20 UTC
Return of an insignificant diplomat: part 1
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 140 D - Spring, 1908, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
13 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: I disagree, you have France in Munich with 4 units bordering Kiel, and a fleet adjacent to Norway and more importantly Barents Sea.
On the other hand you have Italy that doesn't even have Budapest and is burdened by perpetual guessing games in the Balkans.

I'm really interested in your analysis as to why and how Italy is the biggest threat on the board.
Perhaps your words here are just smoke and mirrors.

If you are disbanding in the north you're asking for trouble, not only do you invite France to make further progress but you also prevent me indirectly from taking good care of the southern line.
But I'm convinced you are well aware of all that and Armenia will be disbanded.
13 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Yeah Armenia is the least useful unit to me right now, regardless of what I want to do. Italy I suggest you reinforce the Mediterranean against France if you think he's such a significant threat.
13 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: If you wanna try for a 2wd Italy, I'll press Russia. If not, I'll just hang back and wait for a 3wd
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Hey Italy, if you wanna try for a 2 way draw I will pull every last one of my units out of the North and let France cross the stalemate line there.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: I dont believe in 2-way draws.

France I'm honoured to receive your offer but I must respectfully decline, to play for a two way draw with a player that has such a killer instinct would be foolish.

Oh yes and Russia would do those bad things he mentioned.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Ah, you must've rummaged through my game history? My stabs must have stuck out to you ;)

McBob says that they'd do it. Many players lack the will to go through with the threat in the end. I will respect your wishes, DT.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: What can I say, I'm thorough when playing with big boys.
Generally I prefer a third party in draws because spliting the board in two always brings a couple of leap of faith moments, and I sense that both of us would be inclined to exploit those.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: 10-4
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: I do believe I would follow through with it to the extent necessary. If I can't gain points why should the person who betrayed me. It may be worth looking through some of my historical games. I was about to in the SoW until England backed off.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Last sentence is not understandable to me, but I think I get the point.
Why would I be the person who betrayed you when it was France who suggested it?
I get all the hate in this game and I'm such a gentle, mellow diplomat :(
Hey, while we are digging in each others game history (I've seen what interested me way before, I'll believe you about SoW) you'll notice I have no two way draws in mine, so don't worry be happy take Berlin back and do try not to force me to disband this year, we can draw happily ever after once Otto is finito.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Matticus will know what I meant by the SoW (school of war). England was stabbing me to try and secure their survival and I was about to throw to matt to secure mine (or lose) but then England stopped and we all drew happily ever after. And I'd throw to France mostly because that's what I feel like.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Why doesn’t everyone throw to Germany so then you all stop arguing.
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Sound fair to me
14 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Wait really? I’m expecting a no here.
14 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: Three times already you've threatened to throw, all in the winter phase before even one move was played.
Once is enough, three times is histerical.
And again you've answered the part of my message that does not need answering and ignored others. I don't need a recapitulation of a game in which some throwing occured, we all know how that goes.
Maybe you haven't picked up on it because I'm so subtle so I'll sum it up - I'm NOT entertaining the idea of a 2-way.
That should have been clear from all the press already.
14 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: I very much responded to you, my press was a natural continuation of yours and France's.
14 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: Ok, I must have missed your answer to my question.
Well in any case I'm explicitly supporting a three way draw that was previously agreed upon so have that in mind.
14 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: I did realise that, I was following up the other threads since that one was so obviously tied up.
14 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: Me no understand that idiom tied up, unless we're talking porn suddenly?!
I'm not a native speaker, please explain so I can learn.
14 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: It means that particular aspect of the conversation had been completed.
14 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: Thank you.
15 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: Sorry about that stab, Germany. You were a good ally. I shouldn't have Kiel-ed you... :'(
15 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: At this point, you'd rather have a 3-way with me and Russia, right?
15 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: Sorry bout that terrible pun. Dad habit.

I'd rather win or 2WD, but I don't foresee it happening :(
15 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: As long as Italy blocks out the Med I can easily fall back to my stalemate line before you can do anything about it, so unlikely.
15 Nov 20 UTC Spring, 1907: I'd like to make sure Tunis is completely safe and block the western line, but that depends on what you are doing in the Balkans as well.
If you are trying to gain centers, succeed and this game goes on after this year for some reason, I won't be disbanding in the east.
I'm happy with what I've got and I dont need more to hold the line, hopefully you feel the same about your position.
15 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Interesting how you got Berlin without supporting yourself the first time and now it happens again.
Anyway, you see I'm not aggressive and waiting the demise of Hans.

Matticus, lovely convoy idea I must admit.
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: I'm not sure what to think, this looks suspiciously like a solo rush from France, but only in some aspects. I will say tapping Silesia was not the most co-operative move ever.
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Yes, well it goes hand in hand with an attempt at North Africa doesn't it ;)
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: And of course the attempt at Tunis
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Nah thats a charming one :P
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: No it was a blatant attempt to cross the stalemate line early, how can you not see that? You're lucky it didn't get through.
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Hehehehe
I can roll with that sentiment for the giggles.
North Africa however is exactly what you've described, and its not a laughing matter.
Luckily the Papal State remains blessed with renowned spies.
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Yes, Naf, NTH, Pie and Sil are not unimportant moves.
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: The world eagerly awaits to hear from Jupiter Scapin after these happenings.

Oh how much fun you'll have in the north deciding on which moveset is the right one.
Thats the kind of fun I'm happy to rest from after all possible combinations in the Balkans were hurting my brain for days.
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Oh I just chucked a couple moves in, it has about as good a chance of anything at working out.
16 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Just going to enter holds. Gg
17 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Okay, sure thing buddy. GG
17 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: I do what I want, Russia. What-eva
17 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Those are some aggressive moves Italy... my draw vote is up.
17 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Well it as soon as Germany enters destroys...
17 Nov 20 UTC Autumn, 1907: Gg all. Fun game.
17 Nov 20 UTC Those were just to make it aesthetically pleasing to me, I like Budapest.
Given that France said he will only hold, I thought you won't mind in the end.

My draw vote is up, lets call this game.

GG, had lots of fun.
My draw vote
17 Nov 20 UTC Well, gg! I got off to a start that surprised even me with how fast it was. Everybody except England and Turkey were suddenly my ally, and I'm not sure exactly why. It may have been partly due to some overly passive negotiating while still having a significant military position, but I'm not sure. (Cue for an explanation from a more experienced player)

Then I just completely stalled, and rather amusingly outplayed myself in the Austrian stab. And then a solo push that was dead before it even started (of which I was very well aware, but you can always hope right?) and a poorly thought out German elimination to top it off. All in all, still one of my best performances in any game, up near my Russia game from Masters actually.
17 Nov 20 UTC I was adamant to play against Turkey (simply because I'm Italy) and you were the perfect partner for it, to eliminate Turkey quickly its neccesary to have all three of its neighbours working together.

A lot of your southern power came from Austria allowing you to have an army in Galicia for some reason, my initial strategy was playing an Austro Italian alliance but I changed tact for two reasons.
A) Austria didn't seem like he is willing to fight for his own interest in the east (Galicia) and
B) just before the stab he asked me to support him to Tyrolia. Thats a big no-no for me as Italy.

Regarding the Austrian stab, you did well and I didn't, you never confirmed the bounce in Vienna and I should have read that better and realize it will remain open for me.
That pissed me off because it meant you will get even more centers and I began to worry that you will get solo chances because I enabled you to take all those southern centers first in Turkey (diplomatically) and later in Austria (tactically).
After winning a couple of guesses I felt confident of a draw though.

Seeing a strong player in France made me happy because I predicted his strategy will be exactly what it was, the optimal French strategy, deal with the west and only push for Tunis in the late game if solo is available. Someone else might attack Italy early because it looks easier.

England and Turkey couldn't do much with coalitions against them, at least Turkey tried to challenge my diplomacy, England just downed tools.
Germany played right in the hands of France/Russia, and trying to create an anti Italian coalition was a bit farfetched to put it lightly.
17 Nov 20 UTC As to why everyone was your ally, I think its simple, its because everyone was enemy of either England or Turkey, and you are in perfect position to expediate the offensive on both fronts.
17 Nov 20 UTC I definitely believe the free gains in Scandinavia were largely due to luck when the F/G formed. Although it does make sense that my gains in Turkey were much the same. I do believe I had landed myself a somewhat influential position in the East, especially with Galicia left open to me, and after that it simply made sense that to appease me and make sure a juggernaut wouldn't happen, I was offered some juicy centers. And I was completely content to sit there and let it be handed to me of course.
17 Nov 20 UTC Agreed :D
When you were getting support to Bulgaria and switching your units south Vienna should have bounced Galicia, that would not be an aggressive move just a safety measure.
But once you had the line of Galicia Rumania Bulgaria it was clear that Austria would get sandwiched next.
I didnt mind that because other than attacking Austria my only other option would be to head west, which would probably land me in a precarious position.

I wonder though did you really consider Italy the biggest threat on the board couple of moves ago, that was very unclear to me.
17 Nov 20 UTC Not really, but you were certainly a bigger threat than me. My point was mostly that any actions you could take were far more dangerous than anything I could do at that point and also earlier you had been complaining about how I was bigger than you and had a whopping 3 fleets in the North.
17 Nov 20 UTC It wasnt about the number of fleets, but the fact you had morth sea forced alongside other factors.
But then you messed up Berlin :]
And if you played more daringly in the south you could have gained more in the balkans at one point I thought.

However I also spoke about France being the solo threat a move or two later.
Sometimes thats just an attempt to make other players uneasy about each other.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

DrugTito (1353 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 47 D
12 supply-centers, 11 units
BobMcBob (170 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 47 D
12 supply-centers, 12 units
Matticus13 (2824 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 47 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
wilk0260 (367 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
desdemona22 (301 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
lucoli (128 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
lfischl (121 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
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