Finished: 12 AM Mon 07 Sep 20 UTC
grungenote-4
1 day /phase
Pot: 126 D - Spring, 1918, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
06 Sep 20 UTC Good game - thanks!
Apologies to France for attacking him for too long after it was obvious that I couldn't solo - lack of concentration om my part.....
06 Sep 20 UTC Good game all.
That was a nice back and forth battle we had going. Glad we were able to disengage in time.
06 Sep 20 UTC GGs! Thank you to whoever needed to click draw, it wasn't me, I swear...

Let's see, this game was fairly average, another disincentive for Italies that attack Austria right away ;)

Russia, sorry that I had to stab. I was hoping that you would support me into Venice, but I knew that if you didn't, then you wouldn't expect the stab.
06 Sep 20 UTC Wasn't me either :)

Getting double teamed by E/G, then working with I/G to try and slow down a Juggernaut, then fighting G again before finally getting on the same page to stop a solo is not how things normally go for me as F, so was an interesting game for me.

I will say that E attacking F from the jump, even though it came at my expense this game, is a trend I like seeing.
06 Sep 20 UTC Yeah people have definitely been taking Brother Bored's advice to heart. There was a forum post about it a while ago...I could find it if you want.
06 Sep 20 UTC Haven't seen that but I follow him on Twitter so I'm sure I can locate it. Appreciate the offer.
06 Sep 20 UTC Yeah, Turkey, I did try to support you in the next turn, but obviously it was too late.

I'd like to ask for some feedback on my game. I'm not sure why supporting into Venice was of such importance. I'm also relatively new, so still not used to not overcommitting. And also at the same time as this game, I played another gunboat as Turkey where I did the juggernaut with Russia, and ended with a R-T-F draw.

So are there any obvious mistakes I made that I might not have realised I made? And was supporting Turkey into Venice a sign that I preferred the alliance over my own growth?
06 Sep 20 UTC a hearty congratulations on ensuring italy did not make it into the draw!
06 Sep 20 UTC Long-ass answer incoming. It's a mix of all of those reasons. I will make it clear, I did not stab out of anger about not getting the support into Venice. I don't think the support was necessary for our alliance to keep functioning.

I merely predicted that, if you decided to prioritize attacking Munich over supporting me into Venice the first time, you would either keep making that decision (and leave VIE undefended) or you would change to support me into Venice on the next turn (and leave VIE undefended).

I was very confident that this was the best time to stab you, and that the stab would work very well, and that stabbing you would almost certainly guarantee that I make it to the end of the game, while staying allied with you did not have the same guarantee.

If I did have to give you advice, I would tell you to support me into Venice in fall 1907, because of the center count difference and the positioning. I think I counted right and because you were going to take Berlin, that put you on 11 and me on 7 at the end of 1907 (if I don't get Venice).

Even though you're not in great stabbing position, I saw that you were mostly stalemated in the north, so I got worried that you would look south for further expansion, and without a build that year I had no defense against SEV -> BLA along with MOS -> SEV. If I let you around the back (supported SEV into ARM in the fall), then I'm pretty weak, I have to let Italy retake former Austria, and that's basically the only way that I don't make the draw. So that's why this contributed to my decision to stab.

Side note, if you decide not to support me into Venice, in the future I would recommend that you stab me the following turn ;)

Another reason, if you put me into Venice then it's much easier for me to take the rest of Italy, which keeps me (and my units) occupied and not stabbing you. But without breaking through Venice and with France defending them, I'm looking at no new centers for a long time while breaking down Italy's defenses. So that's also part of why I stabbed.

"still not used to not overcommitting"
In spring 1907, maybe send PRU to BER instead of SIL, then send GAL to VIE. Not unreasonable (I would not have been mad) and makes the stab less brutal. Also positions you to stab me. Plus, PRU ended up being stuck behind BER and basically useless the next turn. Sure, there's the worry that MUN cuts SIL that turn, but that's a minor problem when you're already in BAL.

This advice can also be generalized for gunboat to "plan at least a year ahead at a time, if not further". Every spring, think about where you want each unit to end up after the fall turn, and then figure out how it's going to get there. This would help expose "useless" units like PRU, because you would get to planning the fall turn and go "oh wait this unit doesn't do anything here".

Brother Bored said in one of their articles that they can spend up to an hour on a single turn. That's hella intense but not unreasonable if you're really committed to a game, or if one turn is particularly complicated + important. For example, I definitely spent a long time thinking about Spring 1909, which led to me realizing that I needed to bounce you in UKR.

If you don't mind, link me that other game where you Juggernauted and I'll look for any key differences about why that alliance held up and this one didn't. The first difference I notice is that...you were the Turkey in that game ;) I can also move this conversations to DMs if you want, or the webDip discord, so as not to spam everyone else in this game :)
06 Sep 20 UTC Things that stand out to me:

A-'06 take Vie with Gal instead of Bud. Always try to keep units on your front line as much as possible, even if it's an ally on the other side*.
Also take Den with Bal so G retreat to Ska doesn't put him behind your line.

*Leave a sentry or two behind to protect your flank, even if it slows down your growth a little bit. You never want to lose 3 centers in a stab.
06 Sep 20 UTC lol @ nineczar. I'm familiar with that feeling.
06 Sep 20 UTC Thanks Turkey, France, I'll keep these things in mind. Turkey, I'll pm you the game.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
pyxxy (1013 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 18 D, won: 42 D
17 supply-centers, 17 units
Germany
allanxo (1179 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 18 D, won: 42 D
11 supply-centers, 9 units
France
trip (696 D (B))
Drawn. Bet: 18 D, won: 42 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
England
bob3251 (875 D)
Defeated. Bet: 18 D
Italy
Nurse Ratched (110 D)
Defeated. Bet: 18 D
Austria
nineczar (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 18 D
Russia
John Smith (195 D)
Defeated. Bet: 18 D
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