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Finished: 09 AM Fri 24 Jul 20 UTC
Private The Lusthog Squad-52
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 350 D - Spring, 1910, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
28 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
23 Jul 20 UTC Gg dudes
23 Jul 20 UTC GG
23 Jul 20 UTC I suppose technically this wasn't at a stalemate yet, but it was clearly going to wind up there.
23 Jul 20 UTC Yeah, I was really going to protest that this end was not in the spirit of the game. France and Germany never tried to actually fight each other in any way.
23 Jul 20 UTC In the last turn, I had seriously considered how to position my units to fight Germany or Turkey to go for a solo, and the math just wasn't working out. I knew I could take a lot of Germany, but he would likely leave St. Petersburg, Berlin, and maybe Munich to Turkey, at least, which if Turkey also took Rome and Naples would make a very difficult time stopping a Turkish solo...
23 Jul 20 UTC I agree with the assessment, but it definitely feels like the two of you played as allies to thin out for the eventual draw because you never tried to deal with the threat to the east.

But I am biased - I had to fight both of you together and of course lost.
23 Jul 20 UTC I have the same feeling as you England, they just played safe.
23 Jul 20 UTC For my part, I'm trying to take a hiatus from Dip and Mafia for a bit due to being busy and some personal stuff, so wrapping up my games has seemed more important than tryharding.
23 Jul 20 UTC ggs, I played like hot garbage so uh I don't deserve to have any opinion on how it ended XD
23 Jul 20 UTC It's all good. I was going to say nothing to not be a sour puss until you mentioned how it finished lol.

I'll be down to play some more once you want to play again, though I have been on a crappy 'losing points' streak lately.
23 Jul 20 UTC Germany had a shot in 1907-8 to attack France so I attacked him. France theoretically had a solo shot when we drew, but it would have been nearly impossible to pull it off without Germany a) throwing, or b) leaving himself vulnerable to me, which would have basically handed me the solo. I don't think it's unfair to draw when it makes absolutely no sense to attack.
23 Jul 20 UTC Like I already said, I agree with the assessment of the draw but am saying their gameplay was very much allied and my understanding of the spirit of the game was to go for the solo yet they never appeared to try for it and instead maintained good relations until it was 'too late'. It screams 'playing for thinning the game out'.

In 1904, France stopped me from trying to hit into Germany and began his movements up into my 'backside' as Germany focused all his attention at me while beginning to expose himself as well. France and I had never actually engaged each other in any sort of aggression and to see them after I was pretty much finished infuriated me to the point of almost posting something in the signup thread - I legit thought they must be coordinating outside of game.
23 Jul 20 UTC to see them not attack each other after I was*

(forgot some words in that sentence)
23 Jul 20 UTC My opening moves were pretty anti-English due to the way the E/F/G meta has evolved the last few years. I was able to pretty much just stay neutral in 1901-1902. My Spring 1903 moves were intended to be a groundwork for a quasi-WT (as much as we can have one in Gunboat).

Your move to English Channel made me quite concerned, but I still didn't fully commit against you. In fact, my support on Belgium wasn't so much anti-English as pro-German. I didn't think you were about to attack him, and I was actually a bit surprised you and he both began fighting in Autumn 1904.

By this point, I knew we were transitioning to a late game scenario:
Austria vs. Turkey in the east
E/F/G battle royale in the west.

My thinking was that if I took out England first, I could use that naval position to wrap around and beat Germany in from north and west, while the fight in the east continued or put additional pressure on Germany.

However, Austria was completely inept in defending from Turkey, which necessitated a (IMO) shorter time to reach a stalemate than I intended. In fact, as early as Autumn 1906/Spring 1907 I was thinking about where my units needed to be to keep Turkey from solo-ing.

The loss of Munich really made it more urgent.
23 Jul 20 UTC The most surprising thing this game to me was the Austrian decision around 1904 to come full swing at me instead of working against Turkey. It seemed clear Turkey would attack soon as he had little other avenue for expansion. The fact that in 1905, Austria's border had Turks in Galicia and Rumania, fleets bordering him on all sides, and he had five units dedicated to Italy was pretty telling.
23 Jul 20 UTC Yes, I knew that Turkey would come after me but at that point if I turn back I will just make it longer, but I will lose it anyway. So I was tryng to reach a position where I was key to a stalemate, but it didn't work.
23 Jul 20 UTC Germany was a threat to smoke on you when I took Munich, Chaqa. You were hardly prepared to defend against him. That move was to prevent him from moving on you, not to try and get a solo. You’re welcome.
23 Jul 20 UTC I'm not sure he really could have done much. I had two armies in Pic and Bur, and built a third following that year. In 1907/1908, I could just as easily have left a barebones navy to defend Tunis an send my units to fight Germany.
23 Jul 20 UTC Austria didn’t do anything wrong. Either you get to an advantageous position and rebuild your defenses, hoping I wait to attack, or lose. France fighting him over Italy and prolonging his time spent there was the reason I was able to waltz around him so quickly and easily.
23 Jul 20 UTC You were fortunate that England was annoying him in Berlin when you had no armies in your homeland at all in 1907. He had a very clear and easy path to 18 and he was not superior on land but also equal in the seas. After losing London you would have disbanded a fleet down by me, which would have enabled me to take Tunis and march toward Iberia, squeezing you out from the other side. At that point it's a race to a solo.
23 Jul 20 UTC I disagree. I didn't convoy my army off the mainland until there was only a German fleet in Belgium. I still had an army in Marseille. The next turn, true, I did not have an army in France, but Germany also was bound to use his armies to take Berlin. My lack of armies was a reaction to the situation, not a gap in my lines.

Indeed, Spring 1907 is the only time when Germany could have made an advance - into Burgundy, and potentially taking London. But, he had little reason to think I would leave London undefended. I convoyed and pulled back into Marseille, and London was the only weak point then.

Autumn 1907 could have ben a bad turn for me, but if Germany had taken the advantage there, I would have probably forced a situation where we need to coordinate to stop Turkey.
23 Jul 20 UTC Basically I think your read on the situation is a bit off base and I had a pretty firm grasp on the dynamics of the game - Germany's play had been pretty clear to me, and I was about 75% sure it was Valis, who I know how he plays pretty well.
23 Jul 20 UTC <3

Gosh, have we played many games together before?
23 Jul 20 UTC We've played about 50 games together so far this year, I believe.
23 Jul 20 UTC Valis is a horrendous player so this all makes sense
24 Jul 20 UTC On a more serious level I understand how it is entirely reasonable that different people will interpret the Lusthog code of conduct in different ways with neither being objectively correct. I'm sorry if you felt we bent that spirit England because I respect you. I'm happy to have Chaqa chime in on this but I'm both fairly vindictive and easily solo-threat-concerned so maybe that is not the right kind of personality for this. While I was unwilling to fight THREE fronts at a time and thus only went after Russia and/or England without also going after France, I assure you I was keeping an eye out for any possibilities to do so. But, for example, in the Spring of 1907 when I had unfettered access to his homelands, (1) France could easily pull back to defend (as he did), (2) I was still fighting Russia AND England AND Turkey was becoming an obvious existential threat already and (3) I was trying to claim Liverpool for myself for example. I wasn't being a cuddle bear, I made him demand the center before letting it go to focus on defense against Turkey which was already *in Munich* by that year. I don't think it would be fair to me to say that I could not ally with France out of necessity of having the board top *in my home centers, across the line* while *still fighting two other powers*. Lusthog is not a suicide pact.
24 Jul 20 UTC ^^

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
bo_sox48 (4894 D Mod (G))
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 117 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
France
Chaqa (4027 D (B))
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 117 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
Germany
Valis2501 (2781 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 117 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
England
worcej (982 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Italy
pyxxy (686 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Austria
rdrivera2005 (3319 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Russia
Tom Bombadil (4028 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
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