Finished: 09 AM Tue 23 Jun 20 UTC
Private The Masters 2020 R5G7
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1912, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
3 excused missed turn
Game drawn
21 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1901: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): Paused. Will reset and shuffle countries this evening
21 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1901: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): Hi everyone, this is all set to go.

As a reminder, the only way to score points in this tournament is through solos or board tops.
Solos = 1 point
Non-solo board tops = 0.1 points
Draws (for everyone but the SC leader) = 0 points

Updated scores for the tournament can be found on my latest forum post.
21 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1901: Good luck and have fun all!
21 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1901: Moderator: (goldfinger0303): My sincerest apologies everyone. I had forgot what basic schoolchildren are taught to do, and did not double check my work. This should be the correct country assignments. Almost had a heart attack thinking my spreadsheets were wrong, but fortunately it was just an implementation error on my part.
21 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1901: Good luck, have fun
21 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1901: Anyone else interested in an immediate draw? :D

GLHF all!
22 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1901: Hey all! As much as I realize how unfortunate this is, today was rather busy. I shall likely address you all tomorrow morning! Again, my apologies, and good luck to all!
22 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
22 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: My apologies. IRL stuff popped up today and ended up taking the afternoon & night.
Orders are locked and ready. If the rest of you are set, ready up and we can get to Winter, 1906 ^.^
22 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1906: Ready to go
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Wow, look at that, only total fucking idiots while playing Austria choose to Ally with turkey...
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: How's your strategy looking now Austria? Fucking dumb ass douchebag.
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: While I'm wondering whether I can pick any part of your messages as abusing to report you, I also marvel at the magnitude of your success! Your strategy of being a bizarrely aggressive towards everyone else, dictating terms as if you were Mussolini and then muting me after I surprisingly refused to comply with your abusive stance as if you were ten did really pay off, as everyone can see.

I have long wanted to write you. In way kinder terms, as I wasn't hoping you'd break the silence to be the bully you seem destined to be. Anyway, I had long been planning to write a thorough EOG about this game. I trust you'll be adult enough not to mute me again and read it.
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I'll also take the liberty of publishing our opening dialogue, which is so ludicrous that I'd not believe it myself had I not taken part on it. You'll notice that I've been kind enough to omit the few phrases that you could consider too personal.

Spring, 1901 - Italy: I will vacate Venice if you would like to be my ally.

Austria: Hey, Italy! I do indeed want peace with you, but would rather be sure we can make it by bouncing over Venice. Would you mind that considerably?

Italy: That's a terribly inefficient use of your units and makes it impossible for you to get two builds. if you bounce me in Venice, you will only get 1 build. It shows instantly that you do not trust me, and that you are willing to give up a build for it. Makes you a far less appealing choice as an ally.

Italy: and yes I would mind it considerably. a move of an Austrian unit to Venice is not a friendly act.

Italy: and i didn't ask you for "peace" I asked you to be my /ally/. Central powers together to the end with Germany. Bouncing in Venice is not aligned with that vision

[I was honestly impressed that Italy was expecting me to fully trust him after those mighty twelve words that open our chat. Anyway]

Austria: Ok, let’s deal with it slowly, then maybe reset things.

The Hedgehog opening is very traditional and well-known for Austria. You may dislike it, but it is not an absurd idea I just came up with. Also, it is well understood that the arranged and announced Tri-Ven, coupled with Vie-Gal and Bud-Ser, is most definitely not an attack on Italy.

The very nature of the opening is to minimize Austria’s vulnerabilities. So yes, I know not moving to Albania makes it impossible for me to conquer 2 SCs. But it also makes it impossible for Italy and Russia to send me home early.

And frankly, how on Earth is your lengthy rant justified? You sent me 12 words. Kind words, but it was literally one single sentence.

What did you expect? That I said ‘hey, look! Despite the message being way too short, making no mention whatsoever to what paths Italy thinks we should take in the long run, or in the following seasons, you know what? It was a friendly message, unlike any friendly message I’ve ever received in Spring 1901, I can feel it. That’s it, I’m moving the fleet to Albania and trusting Italy a 100% that I’ll not be attacked’?

Then I suggest a bounce, part of a well-known Austrian opening, and you offer me this rant? As if Italian units had very pressing businesses to attend in 1901 that a bounce is absolutely useless.

Unless, of course, you’re planning an early strike in France. Sorry I failed to realize that based on the magical twelve words you sent me, and actually expected you to politely address what I had suggested.

Anyway. I like the Central Powers Alliance. I’ve played it before as each and everyone of them, to excellent results. The sort of irrational and aggressive behaviour you’ve just shown, however, is deeply unpleasant. I suggest we start over again.

Austria: Hey, Italy!

So, I’m the opinion that Austria and Italy benefit a lot from avoiding unnecessary bloodshed, especially in the beginning. Do you think we could either coordinate actions against Turkey, or set a CPA with Germany?

Also, given the press I’ve been receiving, I’m slightly apprehensive I could come under immediate attack (#AustriaFeelings). In light of that, I’m like to bounce you and Venice, and have proposed a similar bounce in Galicia.

What else have you heard from our fellow players? Anxious to know your thoughts on Austro-Italian relations!

Lastly, good luck!

Austria: (See that? It was my attempt to initiate our overall rapport all over again. But have in mind, and I forgot to add that to the first message, that, in light of your previous rant, I’ll order Tri[e]ste to bounce you in Venice regardless of what you do. If I found twelve kind words too little to build immediate and solid trust, I definitely find dozens of aggressive and unjustified sentences to be reason enough to be suspicious)

Italy: seems like you're an expert on ranting.

Austria: This must be a joke [In case you're wondering, this was all in the course of one afternoon]

Italy: Let's get a few things straight, right at the start.

1) don't ever lecture me. I've played this game likely more years than you've been alive. I don't want to be lectured.
2) I would NEVER in a million years as Italy attack Austria early in the game, never.
3) I think your proposed move is inefficient and wasteful, and it helps Turkey, who should be arch enemy number one for both of us.
4) I am going to send you what was in my draft notes to send, but I did not send it right away, because often people think that I talk too much, like you do, and it turns people off to be "lectured" to, like you just did to me.

here it is, my long term vision, was already in draft form:

This is to both Germany and Austria: Russia brings up an interesting point, the scoring. Right now, if we all voted draw, Russia wins! The /normal/ way people play, trying to be part of a small draw, etc. are not the way this thing is scored. Being "part of the draw" but not top, gives you the same amount of points as being dead. Pretty much everyone I have played with so far did not understand this.

What this means, is that if a player reaches 8 or 9, if they are in a corner and cannot be pushed back, they win, everyone else loses, doesn't matter how many SC you have, or even if you are dead or alive. It's much safer for Austria, Italy, Germany to reach 8 or 9, because if one of these three gets way too big, they can still be pushed back, but it is dangerous in the extreme to allow England, France, Turkey or Russia to reach 8 or 9. They win as top board, everyone else gets zero, long before they become a solo threat.

In my other game, France is at 10, and everyone else says "don't worry, he wont solo" sigh, he doesn't have to solo to win... just be top. He's already won, because no one can push him back ever again. They don't even want to try to push him back, satisfied with a draw, and they get zero points. like the dead people.

My point is this, we should all grow evenly and TOGETHER. 6, 6, 6, then 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, etc... the three of us, being center, are safer than Turkey, France, England, etc. England can set up a fortress at 7 and never be pushed back. Turkey at 6, etc..

Obviously don't share this with anyone, but we should form a secret central powers to the endgame alliance, form temporary alliances with the others, but the three of us should stick together like glue and never fight, ever.

So that's it.

I think your giving up a second build is a shit play for the CPA, if you want to be in a CPA. It doesn't make me like you, but let's get one more thing straight at the start. I don't give a shit or not if you like me or not. I'm not here to be liked. I am here to form a LONG TERM team to try to get 3 of us ALL to top board status.

The best three for that are Germany, Italy and Austria. Allowing anyone else to get too big, they will win, and we will get zero points.

Italy: So, that's my proposal, long term secret CPA.

Austria: I do not care if you've been playing this since the 1960's. You've been aggressive and impolite for no reason at all, and showcase an astonishing lack of diplomatic skill. I say we try this again. I'll go as far as give you an example. Let's assume you sent the same magical 12 words you sent me. Now, assume I answered exactly as I did and we'll get this:

Italy: 'I will vacate Venice if you would like to be my ally.'

Austria: ' Hey, Italy! I do indeed want peace with you, but would rather be sure we can make it by bouncing over Venice. Would you mind that considerably?' [please, notice the enthusiastic exclamation mark and the polite way of asking your opinion over what I asked for]

[suggested answer] Italy: Hey, nice to know you're on the same page! Now, regarding moves, I'm of the opinion that Austria and Italy cooperate more effectively if they do not waste precious time in a bounce, as keeping Turkey from conquering Greece and conquering it for our side can be a major advantage.

Also, I've been talking to Germany* about the idea of a CPA, in which I was thinking of striking Turkey first, before heading West. Would such a path please you?'

*notice how the mention to Germany, something your initial message thoroughly lacked, meaning I had no way of supposing you were looking for a CPA, provides another layer of trust. If Germany confirms the message exchange, and replies enthusiastically regarding the CPA and your press, I'll be more inclined to trust you and accept the idea of not bouncing.

Instead, you replied as if I had suggested something absolutely stupid, useless to what you were suggesting (though obviously whatever the hell you were suggesting didn't get through in the one sentence you wrote me). Instead of addressing the causes for my concern, and pointing what your plans are, you insulted me, and also criticized me for suggesting things incompatible with your (until then not outlined) plan.

You act as if your concept of alliance is akin to you giving orders, mistreating your subordinates and not taking no for an answer. Your behaviour could hardly have showed something different.

I agree with your overall analysis, both of openings, despite my preference for the Hedgehog, and of the tournament. But your stance is hard to swallow. I'm confident you've learned, in your decades of experience (notice I'm not boosting about my own decades of experience), that the goal of the game is not to be liked. But that one is more eager to cooperate with someone likable. And especially that it is rather unnatural to trust someone so arrogant and aggressive.

I again reaffirm my wish to rebuild our relations. I trust you'll eventually apologize and adopt a more civilized tone. In the meantime, there is no fucking way I'm not bouncing you in Venice, in light of your abhorrent behaviour so far.

Italy: Brilliant, another lecture. Have a nice day.

Austria: What allows you to lecture me, then?

Austria: You insulted me, rudely dismissed whatever I had said, immediately accused me of deeply distrusting you because I was not enthusiastically eager to leave myself vulnerable after your brilliant twelve words, disregarded one established Austrian opening as a hostile act, even though everyone knows the opening and know it's not, and for nothing diminished my value as an ally. What the fuck was that? This is what you call diplomacy?

Austria: I'm trying, because I'm fully aware that our two countries should not be fighting in the early game, to show to you, as clearly as I can, that you can, and certainly should, be more polite and likable, and that trust will naturally not develop when you're so unprovokedly hostile, so that we can manage to avoid conflict.

Now, your answer to all the things I've pointed is to say you will not be lectured, because you're awesome as hell and plays this (this badly?, I wonder) since time immemorial, and proceed to be rude and unpleasant, while not addressing the lunacy of your first messages. From the shocking lack of depth of your opening statement to the ludicrously undeserved insulting and absurd message your replied to my unequivocally polite one. For heaven's sake, you must apologize and learn to behave in a civilized manner.

Italy: you know what? just stop. we'll talk later. I can see this is going to be a challenge with you, but it is absolutely essential for you, and somewhat for me, that we work together. War between us is death for Austria, and only maybe for Italy. So we just need to agree that we don't like each other, and then we'll get along just fine!

I am only going to write you to coordinate moves, and only moves, for now.

for my moves, and only for my moves => I am not going to Tyrolia, and of course, Venice will not be left open. If you bounce me in Venice, it's fine, not much I can do about it. Your choice to cost yourself a build.

If you move an army to Tyrolia, or a fleet to Aegean, then we have a bigger problem.

Do you specifically agree to not move to tyrolia and Aegean?

Let's start with something simple like that, okay?

Italy: and if you want good relations, you must stop lecturing me, and no, I am not going to apologize. sorry man, get over it.

Austria: I'm obviously not moving to either Tyrolia or Adriatic, and I hope you don't move to Tyrolia either, or else I'll be vicious.

Now, I appreciate this new stance of yours, of being absolutely practical. However, you will, in due time, apologize and be reasonable.

You'll not get a free pass from me for being such an aggressive bully. I hope there is nothing particularly bad happening in your life, and that nothing bad happens. I'm not sure if other issues triggered you to be this aggressive. What I know is that, if you know the mechanics of this game, you know your behaviour has not been ok, and will address it. I'm certain you can do it.

Austria: Only now I saw your last messages. Ok, then, I'll not lecture you further. But I will insult you and you'll be ok with it and get over whatever unjustified rant I decide to make.

Italy: correct! YAY, you finally got it!

Lectures: NO
Insults: OKAY!

Woo hoo!

Nothing bad is happening in real life. I am very mild mannered, have it easy, [removed]

Do you play zombie games? You know how much fun it is to blow the brains out of zombie with a shotgun? Do I do this in real life? um... no. Of course not. I am also a super polite driver.

So, the game of diplomacy is my asshole outlet. The worst is all the fancy niceties, the fake smiles, while people are plotting against you, that shit bugs me. I don't want people to be nice to me, I want allies that want to win together.

We must never ever let Turkey grow past 5 SC, 6 SC for him is extreme danger for us. Same for Russia and France, but with a slightly higher SC count threshold.

Okay, going back to my zombie game.
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: So, before I actually write an EOG, I'd just like to point that, despite the fine humour we somehow managed to achieve during some seasons, you were so hostile and aggressive to begin with that, in the end, if I had to either endure your commands or throw the game to whoever else just to see you lose, I'd do exactly that and see if you learn, whether you like to be lectured or not, that being so unpleasant is not an effective tactic in Diplomacy.

While I made other mistakes in this game, I'm particularly happy you got eliminated. Never, in the eleven years I've been playing this game in webDip, has a player been so hostile towards me, and, in spite of the few entertaining moments of our talks, I'd be happy to avoid repeating this experience as long as your stance remains the same.

Knowing that, if not all, the majority of the players on this board also feel your management of your emotions is something your could considerably improve, I hope you eventually manage to deal with other people - in whatever setting - in a more civilized way. I assure you it will be good for you, too.
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: A total moron and douchebag to the end.
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Thanks for sharing Austria, I know the Western Board has felt the same way about Italy, especially his tendency to give commands with no authority
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Italy has been quite obnoxious to deal with, I see now that he gave me his land not out of wanting to prevent Turkey's solo, but out of his hatred for Austria (greater than his hatred for me), and because of that I feel I should apologize to Austria since, that's no fun
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Ah, I have been stabbed too. Should have seen this coming earlier. Oh well.
02 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Never quite worked out how to get upset by a game moving pretend armies round a map set 100 years ago.

Especially at the moment.
03 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Italy was...difficult...to work with. Playing the asshole can work, but it made me more willing to go against their wishes and plot against them the moment it became convenient (ie. immediately)

I drew the line at them being pissed at me & cussing me out for being frustrated at them for throwing - lol
05 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1909: I’ve put the draw in - we can play out if we wish but not sure much will change from here.
17 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1911: Alright - my apologies on the recent silence. I have had a lot of things cropping up IRL and have been taking care of them.

Now that Russia and Germany have been eliminated and stalemate lines are mostly established and throwing a wrench in things is pretty much out of the way....I promise there's a reason for my madness and dragging us all through this.

It's also the reason why I ended up turning on my long time ally Germany (sorry Germany!)

With France controlling Tunis and Italy the stalemate line has been pushed back a bit beyond the normal North and south boundaries, making things much easier to handle and gives France and I wiggle room in case of mistakes.

France and I control enough centers that we can throw the match, cutting you, Turkey, out entirely. Neither of us are interested in forcing you from your top position, it's a well earned position, and we're both ready for this match to end. However - I would certainly be interested in sharing that position.

If you give up 2 centers that will bring you to 12 centers and another power to 12 centers - leaving you still in the position of highest score, but now sharing it. With the stalemate line established you may also rest assured that even should France and try to cut you out, witling you down below 12 centers would be impossible.

This deal will also bring this game to a close after the build phase of 1912. It'll be a quick and easy end to a long and well fought match.

(If we're all good and ready up quickly this can be done even faster.)
17 Jun 20 UTC Autumn, 1911: *old man from Monty Python*
I'm not dead yet!
18 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1912: if you needed any verification, England's request is true, and he has my support
19 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1912: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
19 Jun 20 UTC Spring, 1912: I’m ready again
21 Jun 20 UTC Turkey?
21 Jun 20 UTC 1 more center, that's all we're asking bud
21 Jun 20 UTC waiting on you England
21 Jun 20 UTC Ah, so you were! GG all, and thank you France and Turkey for going along with this.

My apologies Germany, you were a wonderful ally but turning on you was safer than France and......okay so full confession I was thinking/hoping with France so far forward I’d be able to secure some territories far ahead of the stalemate lines to go for a solo. But I’ve played this final bit so poorly that the chance never materialized like I’d hoped. I also screwed up several chances to set that up. I’m ready for the game to be done and take a break ^.^

Thanks again all!
22 Jun 20 UTC No worries, England. I was a sub so I only get 3 games compared to everyone else's 7. I didn't really have a chance in this game too anyways.

France, I wonder what made you go along with England's plan of splitting the points with Turkey. It didn't really help you in the standings implications.
22 Jun 20 UTC yea, I wasn't expecting England to take Brest without asking me, but I really didn't have much say, if I left my stalemate line in the South then Turkey could easily overwhelm me
22 Jun 20 UTC I was the one most sandwiched between the two powers
22 Jun 20 UTC but given my start, I'm happy to just be here

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

England
Sunstriker (354 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
13 supply-centers, 10 units
Turkey
Chesney (665 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
13 supply-centers, 14 units
France
Deus velunt (179 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
8 supply-centers, 10 units
Italy
Tugster (13048 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Germany
Temasek22 (480 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Austria
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Russia
90kicvesb (4021 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Archive: Orders - Maps - Messages