Finished: 06 PM Wed 15 Apr 20 UTC
Another Sweetwater Classic Game
1 day /phase
Pot: 707 D - Autumn, 1908, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
0 excused missed turn
Game won by FleetYeet (100 D)
15 Apr 20 UTC Gg France.
Your final spurt was very fast and practically met no resistance.
15 Apr 20 UTC Yeah me, Austria, and Turkey, couldn't get our act together. It didn't help that even once Turkey started to help I kept mis-judging how Turkey would help and getting in the way.

Good job France!
15 Apr 20 UTC Good game everyone.

Yeah Tutti, I was surprised that I was able to enter Tunis, especially with not having any fleets in the Med by the end of 1906.

I'm glad that England chose not to hold StP this season, that would've just dragged a decided game on another couple of years. Thanks for the good sportsmanship, TheAltruist! Same to you, Danaman, if that's what you intended with your move out of Venice
15 Apr 20 UTC Yeah peterwiggin, I definitely got lucky with the bounces in and around the Ionian
15 Apr 20 UTC Yes fun game.
Yes FV my move out was that.
I felt I went to set up the wall but Tutti punished me for it. So I was worried about it continuing. I was wrong but your victory was sealed. Plus I was hoping England held on for the survived.
Outstanding win FV
Great game all, a solo with only one real elimination.
15 Apr 20 UTC well, enough patting each other on the back for awful end game play, eh?

France is overrunning Scan, and Austria goes to Ukraine. Then Austria throws Germany under the bus, taking Warsaw instead of defending Munich, and then lets him walk into Tyrolia and into Venice, because Austria wanted to support himself into... Galicia.

Turkey takes Serbia, so we can disband a vital Russian army in Galicia, to rebuild it in ... con, totally worthless.

Italy disbands GOL! because Turkey is pressing him with three fleets. And then of course Italy collapses, because Austria could not see the obvious need of blocking Tyrolia, but how could he, Turkey is trying to take Trieste, for what??? to build yet another worthless army behind the lines?

Turkey. LISTEN up, you must learn how to stop a solo from "behind the lines" As turkey, when a western solo is coming, you move ALL your units towards Syria, as far away from Russian, Austrian and Italian SC as you can, and you must absolutely not poach and snipe SC of the three guys on the front trying to stop a solo. After you MOVE BACK, then the other three move to the stalemate line, you /carefully/ move a few up into supporting defensive positions, like 1 fleet into Ionian, but not all three. You did all the wrong things, you pressured Italy and you poached SC from Austria.

Absolutely awful end game play.
15 Apr 20 UTC Yes I would fully agree.
In 05 when I moved on you “Ukraine” I thought we would be able to eliminate you and I could get up to help England in the draw. I was wrong on this.
In 06 I saw that was not gonna happen but had to defend against Turkey too much.
In 07 I went to set my side of the line hoping you would move north but you then took 2 of my SC which I could not afford to lose if I am setting my line. Not knowing your level I took Warsaw back to force you to liv.
Then in 08 turkey comes poaching so that was it for me.
I honestly appreciate your recap, thank you :)
15 Apr 20 UTC By the way when I moved to Warsaw and Romania I didn't expect to actually enter them, based on your previous bad moves, I expected you to hold. I move those places to send you the message to get the f*** away from me. Then to my surprise I actually entered them. I was going to move out but I knew you would react emotionally and counterattack, so I stayed.
15 Apr 20 UTC Austria, another things that you must accept is that Scan and England can never be saved from a position like that, look at fall 1905. four french fleets in and near scan will conquer all of Scan and stp, no stopping this ever. You must count on all being lost up to Stp. holding Berlin or Munich becomes vital in that situation, if there is any risk of Tunis being lost.
15 Apr 20 UTC and for England, why do you think that Scan and Stp are better for you than all three of your home SC? The most heinously bad moves were the failure to convoy back in spring of 1902 and the retreat to Skag in 1902. it was a fall turn, you can disband that retreat instead of going to skag and rebuild an army in Edinburgh and actually counter attack to win back your home SC, but no, you willingly evacuated all of your home island, letting him walk into North Sea, just to reoccupy Scan, when long term, this is folly, a powerful France will always overrun scan in the end, and he did.

If you are trying to "get to the other side" of the stalemate line, here's a news flash you, all of Scan and Stp are on the same side of the major stalemate line as your home island is!
15 Apr 20 UTC True thanks Tug I agree with your assessment of my play. I stand by if I did not do that I would not have survived. But that was follow up to my mistake letting Munich fall.
15 Apr 20 UTC Yeah, шt was a terrible mistake from me that I understand too late... I just didn't see that in 1905-06 (!!!) France is already reaching the finish line.
15 Apr 20 UTC @Tugster. I realized the home front was lost when France had made so many fleets surrounding my island. If I had turned back to defend you and Germany would have wiped me off the map and I would have been out of the game even faster so I hoped that I could at least retain some dignity and harass you and especially Germany for giving you that support early on that did me in.

General question. If y’all were playing as Germany would you default to siding with Russia if you saw England make my first year moves?
15 Apr 20 UTC absolutely, the move to Skag is like death to Germany.

And you sealed your own death warrant in the spring of 1902. I mean seriously? If you want some dignity, then fight to defend your homeland as first priority.
15 Apr 20 UTC and then abandoned your home island in 1903. dignity? um, no. Disgrace yes.
15 Apr 20 UTC the best way to defend England against France is with an ARMY. it is very, very difficult to defeat a lone army in England with french fleets only. One army is worth 3, yes, 3 fleets on the island itself. And when your help your main army with one or 2 fleets, you can fight forever on the islands, but when you just run away, well, then you lose, of course.
15 Apr 20 UTC and only one thing "did you in" by the way: YOU.

Germany and Russia never stabbed you. We were just playing a normal game, fighting over the normal SC that we fight over, no stabbing.

France stabbed you. France killed you, why would there be revenge against Germany or Russia?
15 Apr 20 UTC Basically all you did was to help the guy that stabbed you, to win a solo.
15 Apr 20 UTC Amen
15 Apr 20 UTC I don't think I stabbed England, I was attacking him from S01. Being let in to the North Sea was a surprise, to be sure.

I think England's observation about not wanting to defend an obviously lost position is generally correct for Diplomacy, but I think the isles were given up a bit too quickly

Let's not berate each other though
15 Apr 20 UTC well, not to mince words, call it what you will, but England started with 3 SC, all on his home island. By the end of 1903, he had exactly three new SC: Norway. Sweden and stp, and he lost all three of his home SC. During those three years, he literally ran away from his homeland as fast as he could, a light speed record for the conquest of England. It unbalanced the game.

Then, for all of 1904, he just sat there, never even bothered to even try to slow down France's advance, didn't even write a support order just all hold for two turns in a row. No self bounce in Skag, no bounce in Norwegian, nothing at all. I mean if you're not even going to try to play, why show up in the first place?

And then for him to state that he was trying to save some dignity! HA. dignity? what a joke.
15 Apr 20 UTC and it wasn't "obviously lost" either, a disband of the retreat and an army rebuild in Edinburgh, would have given him years of fight in the island, years.
15 Apr 20 UTC Nobody stabbed me. I just did what I thought would give me the longest chance at survival once I saw I had no friends.
15 Apr 20 UTC Nobody stabbed me. I just did what I thought would give me the longest chance at survival once I saw I had no friends.
15 Apr 20 UTC I was your friend, well at least not an enemy :)

Good win France.
16 Apr 20 UTC I was your friend too England!
16 Apr 20 UTC Now I feel loved. Thank you guys :)

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

France
FleetYeet (100 D)
Won. Bet: 101 D, won: 707 D
19 supply-centers, 15 units
Turkey
Tutti (653 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
7 supply-centers, 6 units
Austria
Danaman (1666 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
4 supply-centers, 5 units
Italy
peterwiggin (15279 D Mod (S))
Survived. Bet: 101 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Russia
Tugster (13048 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
2 supply-centers, 3 units
England
ThaAltruist (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
Germany
sweetwatersam (4957 D)
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
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