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Finished: 12 PM Sat 10 Aug 19 UTC
Private BIERR
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 175 D - Autumn, 1908, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Sum-of-Squares Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
07 Aug 19 UTC i can think of many better things to do than hit kiel
07 Aug 19 UTC That is a lie. My draw vote is still up.
07 Aug 19 UTC Turkey you told me in PM that you dont solo often

You dont get better chances than you have now unless you are playing with morons
07 Aug 19 UTC The game didnt end when i threw mine down earlier
07 Aug 19 UTC That is correct, and I’ve never gotten a solo without someone throwing me the game. But if I go for it here I’m essentially throwing it to you, and that’s not an option.
07 Aug 19 UTC i do think turkey has a better solo position than france, which is why you should stop attacking us france, because if turkey solo's it's on you
07 Aug 19 UTC Are you claiming you voted draw now? I cast my vote after fall of 1907 and it remains up.
07 Aug 19 UTC Here is the synopsis of France's draw vote:

I threw mine down yesterday and the game didnt end.

Subsequently I pulled it reasoning that if the turn goes badly for you and you do actually vote draw, maybe I wont want mine down.
07 Aug 19 UTC Well my vote has stayed up since last year, like I said. Either you’re lying or someone else hasn’t voted to draw, and I think the former is much more likely.
07 Aug 19 UTC I think my history with candor is less checkered than yours in this game.

Mine is back down. I will pull it 3-4 hours before the turn. You have that long to decide.
07 Aug 19 UTC That doesn’t even make sense. Why would you pull your vote before this turn if you really want to draw the game now? This is just a ridiculous attempt to make Russia and Italy suspicious of me so we don’t work together against you.

And even if you’d played a 100% honest game up to this point, it wouldn’t prevent you from lying here. Using my previous betrayals as a defense of your honesty is laughable. I know my vote is up, and I know you still want to win. I think you’re getting frustrated and are trying to paint me as the villain to take some pressure off of you. But you’ve made it clear to everyone here you aren’t satisfied with a draw, and I’m 100% committed to stopping your solo.
07 Aug 19 UTC No one with a chance of winning (or at least, no one competent) ever lets the phase shift with a draw vote up because there is always the chance that the opponent (you) fucks up and momentum shifts back (to me).

This is obvious and I am sure you do get it. If not, maybe its part of why you supposedly dont win very often.

Again, mine is up. It will be gone before you make me play through the phase. So you have 20ish hours to decide.
07 Aug 19 UTC And yes, I am frustrated that everyone has committed ritual suicide, but that doesnt mean it isnt clear from looking on the board who is in the drivers seat at this point.
07 Aug 19 UTC Fine. As much as I appreciate the insightful and helpful feedback on the reasons for my lack of wins, I’m done with this game of he said/she said. Your moves have spoken for themselves, so please stop insulting everyone at this table and just drop it.

I guess if anyone besides France hasn’t voted to draw, you have until 3-4 hours before the phase to do so.
07 Aug 19 UTC Yawn
07 Aug 19 UTC If anyone is committed to the draw they should propose to put turkey back into Tunis and support hold him there for all of eternity
07 Aug 19 UTC Not turkey, Italy *
07 Aug 19 UTC Turkey? Do you mean Italy?
07 Aug 19 UTC Ah, sorry. Crosspost.
07 Aug 19 UTC I would fully support that.
07 Aug 19 UTC "Just drop it"

Youve played an extremely aggressive game and the false cherub attitude is like nails on a chalkboard
08 Aug 19 UTC I propose that we bring this game to a close. Doing so now would allow all of us to go out on a high note.

France gets to end the game as the undisputed board leader. Turkey gets the satisfaction of stopping the dreaded French solo. Russia and I make it to the draw in a game we probably had no business surviving and Germany never has to interact with me again.

I’ve enjoyed this game and learned a lot, but it’s been mentally and emotionally draining for a number of years now. Judging by the global chat lately, I’m not the only one who’s patience and interest is beginning to wear thin.
08 Aug 19 UTC I hope that when the names are revealed at the end, we will not carry any animosities over to the truly personal level inflicting social damage. Thus, except for 'Germany never has to interact with me again', I fully agree with Italy. I've never felt so much distrust towards players, and I've never felt so exhausted after a game. It feels as if this match were dragging for centuries.
08 Aug 19 UTC If I was angry at Italy I don't remember why :)
08 Aug 19 UTC I can tell how committed France is to the draw
08 Aug 19 UTC I don't know why y'all took Turkish centers when turkey has the best units in place to hold a line
08 Aug 19 UTC I'm convinced it's France not drawing so can we all please just work together now?
08 Aug 19 UTC @Germ: I’m committed to working against France if they choose to hold out. I don’t think they will though. IIRC France is on vacation and has better things to do that spend years trying to wring one or two more centers out of us. For full disclosure, I’m leaving for vacation tonight too and that’s no small part of my motivation here.

@Russia: I agree about trying to leave the game with as little animosity as possible. I enjoyed playing with ya’ll and ultimately only have myself to blame for the less-than-stellar finish.
08 Aug 19 UTC I'm leaving for vacation in 4 days but I don't think I'd draw if I was France. We'll see. But you do acknowledge that moving forward the rest of the board has to work together right?
08 Aug 19 UTC As long as you're not going to hinder us stopping the solo it'll be fine
08 Aug 19 UTC I need to study a bit

Hopefully germ will buy us time by not locking in his retreat

The match has been extremely challenging
08 Aug 19 UTC @Germ: Yep, the die is cast.
08 Aug 19 UTC Unfortunately I need to ready up because I'm flying out in a few days and if you're gonna hold us out then I show you no mercy
08 Aug 19 UTC Well I’m definitely on board to stop France from winning, and I wish I was able to be more convincing of that leading up to here. I realize that my reputation this game has been “checkered” so I can’t blame anyone too much. It sounds like we’re all on the same page now, at least, so if France does decide to let the game continue I look forward to being able to cooperate against France with each other’s full trust.

Like Italy, I realize that I’m responsible for my game and I won’t hold anything from this game against any of you. And I also agree with the general consensus about this game. It has been one of the most fun, interesting, and challenging games I’ve experienced and I’d happily play with any of you again, but right now I’m exhausted and very much still in support of a draw.
09 Aug 19 UTC I thought about it. I dont think a stalemate line was formed but you were close enough that I didnt think it necessary for us to go through the exercise.

Thank you all for a very challenging game.
09 Aug 19 UTC That was fun. I wouldn't have drawn but thank you. I really enjoyed our alliance France, I would have loved to see it continue but alas. Thanks all for playing.
09 Aug 19 UTC Wow, I didn’t expect that at all. Thanks France, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your vacation! Despite the somewhat contentious discussions in global near the end, I really enjoyed this game. In a misguided attempt to be more calculating, I stabbed more than I ever have (I think the only player I didn’t stab in some respect was England... yikes) and it didn’t work out too well. But I’ve learned a lot from my many mistakes and I’m truly honored to have played with you all! Thanks Austria for setting up the game! Sorry I was a big part in your early departure...
09 Aug 19 UTC This was a helluva game. Felt it spiraling out of my control as early as 1901 builds, but trying to keep this crazy train of a country on the rails was a blast!

Well played all! Look forward to doing it again sometime.
09 Aug 19 UTC I don’t think I’ve ever seen Italy build two armies in 1901 ;-)
09 Aug 19 UTC @Germ I know I could have has norway, sweden, stp in the balance of time

But assuming the correct moves were made in Italy it appeared done and I still have some vacay to enjoy
09 Aug 19 UTC It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the alliance had continued :)
09 Aug 19 UTC @Italy I enjoyed our press, mon ami!

@ Russia you were affably cantankerous and I enjoyed it

@Turkey really good game. Wouldnt have drawn if you hadnt voluntarily stepped to 11 and removed my ability to try and manipulate someone into making a mistake.

That said, I would have gone for the jugular last fall if I were you - if I were to suggest any changes at all, its more merciless aggression, not less. Enjoyed our press!
09 Aug 19 UTC Relief... A very strange game. Throughout almost the entire match I have been on defence with no breathing space, which is a very foreign playstyle to me. At the end of the match, I literally was a puppet state. Thus, I can't say that I enjoyed it, but certainly a quality match on your part, fellas!
I definitely cannot say the same about my quality: an NMR of mine and two embarrassing mistakes in submitting orders, both related to fleets (sorry Durga, it WAS an erroneously given order to attack NTH). And another strategic error, from which a conclusion should be drawn: when Germany 'offers' Russia SWE, do not accept it. And better yet, as Germany, do not 'offer' Russia SWE.
Given the very context of the match, with this particular end-game composition, it was a wise decision to draw, France. Don't think that you have lost a chance for a win. Your position was no longer winnable. But an excellent attempt to manipulate through your press! Hadn't Turkey abandoned their ambitions, I would have been more willing to co-operate if you'd offered a higher survival chance.
Kudos, Turkey, for having built that bloc of countries who were able to work together towards a common goal (like the European Union?).
Let's enjoy the well-deserved vacation now!
09 Aug 19 UTC Thank you for the game all, it was a short one for me, bit i enjoyed spectating it as well!
I hope to meed again in other games in the future!
09 Aug 19 UTC Thanks France, I’ll keep that in mind. I have a lot of regrets about autumn 1907, and I wish I had gone for it. But, alas. In the end I was happy to donate a few centers to the cause, as I thought it was the only way to avoid a loss. I needed to make it really obvious, mostly to Russia, that I wasn’t going to screw everyone over. I’m glad that I was right and that it worked!
09 Aug 19 UTC The only world in which I don't let Russia have Sweden is a world where Russia is steam rolling the south or has horrible press
09 Aug 19 UTC And Russia should absolutely take Sweden lol. Why wouldn't you
09 Aug 19 UTC I might try to make some f2f games in Chicago if anyone happens to be around!

Very tough match and I will have to sign up for some open 5 point bet games in hopes of a breather after this one.
09 Aug 19 UTC you should do it!! the chicago hobby has some v nice people
10 Aug 19 UTC I’m not too far from Chicago! I’d be up for trying f2f so if you do try to make it happen let me know :)

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

ben9990 (1345 D)
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 100 D
14 supply-centers, 13 units
kgray (647 D Mod)
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 62 D
11 supply-centers, 13 units
Szpoti (1720 D Mod)
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 9 D
4 supply-centers, 3 units
Durga (3609 D)
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 5 D
3 supply-centers, 3 units
CLRJames (100 D)
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 3 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
thdfrance (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 25 D
tobieee911 (102 D (S))
Defeated. Bet: 25 D
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