Finished: 09 PM Fri 03 May 19 UTC
Private ODC 2019 - R1 G15
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 35 D - Spring, 1911, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Sum-of-Squares Scoring, Hidden draw votes, Wait for orders
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
25 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1909: What happened was that a turn actually processed on time :-0
25 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1909: This is also true.
28 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: I have honesty never seen a game like this 1910 all powers alive but only 3 with a home centre of their own under their control...
28 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Agreed, this has been a really unique game.
28 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: There's still time to draw before it becomes 6 and 2.
28 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: My draw vote is in :)
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: I've voted draw too not sure if it means anything to you guys
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: I think we're just waiting on Russia for that last draw vote. ;)
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: I have enjoyed this game immensely and I am astonished and happy about the uniqueness of it.
So, my draw is set but I don't think it will suffice.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: I mean, the "late as a Dent, Arthur Dent"- player has fell back into its periodic hibernation.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: My draw vote is in (and has been previously)
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Some serious LOL if France is truly the only non-draw voting player.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Then please let me into Lvp and end this folly ;-)
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: So on my count we have russia, austria, Turkey, germany and Italy. England probably implied but not explicit. So brave France I think its down to you

To be fair probably is just doing something unsportsmanly like being at work at actually concentrating on his job rather than sneaking off to a meeting room with his phone like I do
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: At least everyone have checked in orders - a good sign
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: A BAD SIGN you mean.

It suggests we potentially have 7 hours until our doom.
;)
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Pretty sure France has voted draw. They just let me know. I think you're just messing with us Russia. :P
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: My draw vote has been in for like the last 5 years.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: So I assume England has just forgotten to put his in yet.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Or Russia is playing us lol.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: With the way SCs are, the squares sum to exactly 400 I think.
Russia - 72.25, Turkey - 25.00, France/Italy - 1.00, England/Germany/Austria-0.25
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Wow. It's actually such an incentive to be aggressive.

No need to solo to guarantee going through.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Mine is in and has been. I highly doubt Russia is drawing.
29 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Agreed. R U S S I A we have successfully caught you in a greedy fib. ;)
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Can anyone with a good grasp of the scoring systen please explain to me what I would win from not voting draw? The solo is obviously not happening, so how could I possibly get more points from a draw than I would get now? Why would I "play you"? Or be more greedy?
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Here's my analysis.

England and Italy, you're subs, highly appreciated but I presume your incentives shouldn't be anything else but perhaps stopping the solo as you won't have a 2nd round ambition.

AFG might have an equal or almost equal lead in their second game that could be challenged by my score. The reasoning behind this is unclear though, it might as well be the other way around - cutting out all other competition (i e Turkey) from getting any points to compete with yours. Hard to tell the probabilities.

Leaving Turkey as the one who would obviously benefit most from continuing. Advancing positions and eventually getting centers. Every SC Turkey gains will lower my score.

So, there could be a number of reasons, but it is definitely not my desire to continue that have the highest rank.

What did I miss out?
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: You get 100 points vs 72.25 if you solo. Either way, at that point, you would probably advance. England could have thought gaining Edi would give an extra 0.75 points, but thats unlikely. Turkey is the only one with incentive to not draw, since gaining just one of your SC's would change the score from 25 to 31.19. However, the risk of you soloing is probably too great at this point, unless Turkey's other game didn't go so great, and is now working from an all or nothing mindset.

Tl;dr - The non draw voter is likely either Russia going for the solo, or Turkey trying to snag an extra 6-15 points.
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: It is not Turkey...
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Thank you Italy.
Agree, and what exactly would I gain from starting this draw discussion, compared with just going on as before? Get you guys more relaxed so you will begin making mistakes?
Don't think so.
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: I mean it would be such a pointless lie. I'm not desperately playing for a solo, things have just gone my way and I have been trying my very best. A 72,25 score would be more than I ever hoped for when I realised I would be playing Russia. It was fun while it lasted but last year I became ready to accept that I am not going to solo, despite the Lvp/Edi turnout. So, when you guys started to talk about that we're all still on board, I thought it would become a nice ending, with us all alive and kicking after ten game years.
OK, the fact that you're still in the game does help my score too, it's true ;-)
But still, as I said, I won't be able to max out my score any more. Just trying to make it to the 2nd round. Never mind tie breakers or some people saying if you can solo you have to go for a solo. We've had some fun here and I am (still) ready to call it a draw.
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Thanks Russia, I certainly appreciate it and I have to say the tenacity and commitment from the rest of the board on 1 or 2 centres has been amazing, it would be so under draw sized scoring let alone sum off squares. I wish I saw that in all my games as it makes it a really fun experience.

I hope we can all accept the draw and walk away with a sense of achievement, I think Russia has played best across the course of the game and I was lucky enough to ride his slipstream.

France and Austria and more lately Germany have shown great skill in staying alive and making themselves essential to the draw (Austria just would not die, goodness knows I tried but in the end gave up, absolute Japanese knotwood :-)

Italy, England thank you for stepping in and playing such a fantastic defensive game
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: So can we all draw now? And can everyone double check that they have submitted a draw vote.
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Double checked and ready.
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Double checked, even cancelled and re-entered.
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Double checked & re-entered!
30 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Good idea, re-entered now
01 May 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Obviously, we’re not drawing, and obviously the guy about to solo is the one not drawing. Can we just get past that ideal fantasy most of us have and get this game done with?
01 May 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: It was worth a try!

I personally like the fight against overwhelming odds!
01 May 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Also now we have a MORAL VICTORY.
01 May 19 UTC Autumn, 1910: Well, I happen to know I have draw set, so there must be some other power(s) that have a reason not to. I really have tried to argue for the draw with you folks and I will have my draw vote set through the deadline, so everybody will have the chance to (change their mind and) set draw but I assume if it hasn't happened yet, it's a grasp of a last straw, or how the saying goes.

See you on the other side!
01 May 19 UTC My bad folks I thought I had drawn but for some reason I hadn’t
01 May 19 UTC Hahaha Germany Germany Germany...
01 May 19 UTC Well played all. Russia sorry for all the lying accusations about the drawing. I am sure you can understand why
01 May 19 UTC GERMANY!!!!

Lol my apologies for accusing you Russia! Seems that it was a mistake after all.

Wow! I'll be giving a brief summary of my thoughts on what was quite the ridiculous game!
01 May 19 UTC I would have suspected Russia as well, so not hard feelings ;-)
01 May 19 UTC Well I'll be lmao
01 May 19 UTC I wrote a summary of my perspective!

I initially felt like I jived best with Turkey, so my plan was actually to try to take Russia down first after bouncing him out of Rumania (Germany had agreed to bounce Russia out of Sweden). Things seemed good with Italy, so I didn't fear a stab (duh duh duuuuh). Russia was pretty intent on bouncing me in Gal but otherwise felt that I could work well with him if things went sour with Turkey.

1. In hindsight I really screwed up on not blocking Italy out of Trieste in Spring 1901. He said normal Italy things about killing Turkey so I didn't have any indications of it, but it was still my bad. Italy apologized but didn't seem very contrite, or like he had much of a plan. The fact that he didn't seem to know what he was doing meant...

2. Deciding to make the best of a bad situation. In order to try to salvage things I tried bullying Italy into agreeing to a key Lepanto, with the hope that Turkey would still be willing to deny Russia Rumania. Regrettably the latter didn't happen but it (sort of) worked initially.

3. Nonetheless Italy was feeling greedy, and even though I managed to take Bulgaria in Spring 1902, Russia and Italy both decided on stabs. Now thankfully Germany had attacked Russia which gave me enough hope to try to triage the situation with Russia but my goal was to get them to agree to move to Vienna (thus denying a possible Italian stab). Italy had moved west against France so I thought there was a chance he was genuine but at this point I didn't have much faith in Italy so I made plans to retake Serbia. Sadly Italy did stab me, causing me to lose Bulgaria, Vienna, and with Russia in Budapest, any chance of either of us really stopping the newly minted Juggernaut. Meanwhile, Germany's offensive against Russia had stalled.

4. In 1903 things looked bleak. I had no controlled centres, and little chance of getting any back. But some pleading with Russia and bad play from Italy managed to miraculously bring me back. Simultaneously some truly bizarre moves from England caused a collapse in the English-German alliance against Russia, and England's position collapsed.

5. My goal from then on (as a result of this new normal) was (despite my good press with Turkey) to help Russia win at all costs and hope that we could hold a draw. This is particularly the case because Italy and Germany were still trying to kill me!!!!

6. Turkey claimed I would be allowed to live if I helped against Italy, who I had a very low opinion of, so I obliged until new Italy arrived on the scene. We tried to go back to slowing the Turkish advance but it was doomed, so I spent all of my time in the game trying to help Russia brainstorm stabbing Turkey. And thank goodness he decided to.

7. The final stage was some fun discussions about how to get Germany to make better defensive play and to help Turkey think about how best to coordinate a defense with our motley crew of players. It was great fun, and I never imagined we'd actually get a draw out of it.

So with all of that said, despite the bloodthirsty play from original Italy and some.... *questionable* play from the western powers, it was a fun game!

Thanks for playing, everyone!
02 May 19 UTC We definitely had another example of Italy attacking Austria early on almost never do any of them good.

Thanks for the EoG, Austria, good reading. Writing mine atm but it may actually be delayed until next week, unfortunately.

Meanwhile, thanks a lot for playing! I enjoyed this game greatly, for more than the apparent reason.
02 May 19 UTC And here is mine

1. As Austria said I thought we got on well and he was my preferred ally, however there was unfortunately some paucity in number of messages exacerbated by time zone difference so I didn't feel comfortable fully throwing myself into it as a couple of key negotiations had not landed, perhaps Austria was busy or focused elsewhere as we shared a lot of comms for the rest of the game so this felt like a missed opportunity. Anyway my main goal was to not get teamed up on, Italy can go west, attack Austria or attack Turkey (simplistically), he didn't want to go west so that left me encouragung him to attack Austria. I had intended to reveal his dastardly plans to Austria but in the end decided to go with Italy.

2. Austria did a fantastic job of turning Italy much to my surprise and after spring 02 I was on the ropes faced by what appeared to be a RAI alliance. Over the next year I worked my diplomatic boots off turning Italy and Russia onto Austria and Russia ultimately into my ally. This was made more difficult by the initial Italy being replaced just after agreeing to my plan so I had to start over in a frantic late night messaging blitz.

3. The next period was dominate but trying to balance delicately a number of factors
A) the result of the key lepanto attempt was that Russia was the dominant partner, I needed him more than he needed me, I was worried about pushing too hard or for asking for too much in case it swayed him to turn on me as I was sure Austria for example would be advocating this
B) I needed to close our power disparity which runs contrary to point a, we were doing this but it was taking time and Russia kept make good estimates guessed against England and Germany and growing faster than expected.
C) I needed our alliance to "win" , no good us stalling out so I had to some degree prioritise what would make us successful eg getting builds for st p nc
D) I needed our success in different theatres to favour me to help with the power balance both then and in the future.

4. Russia did a good job of giving me just enough to make the stab not worthwhile and i think I was managing to do the above points well enough until autumn 1906, two things happened here, firstly a second new Italy came in and made up with Austria and reverse the policy of going to the Atlantic and abandoning his homeland to me - this crucially slowed me by a season or two and secondly Germany collapsed,Russia taking off a massive bite speeding his advance by a one to two seasons from my estimations. Together these broke the balance I had so lovingly nurtured. I also hadn't quite realised the extent to which Austria was working against me.

5. Rightly so Russia spotted his opportunity and it would have been his last as he had agreed to give up some centres which would have given me the units and board position to set up defensively that would have had vie bud and rum in the next year which was our agreement. Unfortunately I decided it might be a good idea to undertake the key spring 1907 negotiations with Russia whilst playing a live 5 minute deadline gunboat game, turns out it was not a good idea. I missed key bits of information such as Russia requesting again Piedmont after I said no which I then didn't rebutt (amongst others) - so I largely have myself to blame for not applying the diplomatic pressure.

6. I was quite relieved to read that Austria was always working against me as in autumn 07 I told him I couldn't think of any perceivable lie that might convince him I wasnt trying to kill him that turn and I have been slightly worried he changed to Russia because of that, I didn't think so but good to know.

7. I then probably made a bit of a mistake around where I focused on pushing Russia back, in hindsight I should have sent my fleets into the Atlantic but I had not yet built enough trust with italy/England et al so I delayed not wanting to make them think inwas just trying to snatch centres so was a bit too late getting there.

8. Just want to say again what a great tactic campaign Russia waged, continually out foxed me and again thanks for all the superbly resilient play from the rest, and as Austria said I had some fun plotting and scheming with him and the rest of you

9. The last bit of the game was characterised by me trying absolutely everything to get Russia to agree to the draw, anger, humour, relentless messages, false promises and a huge dollop of begging. I think I would have promised my first born child if it would have made a difference.

So thanks all for th wonderful game, unbelievably tenacity and then I think mercy from Russia.

Hope to play with you all again soon and all the best for the rest of the tournament.

Brumark/Turkey
08 May 19 UTC This game was a lot of fun for me. I felt like I started off strong and made a couple of key errors that ended it for me. Firstly, switching to Russia's side, then back to England, completely crushed me and England's chances of holding off Russia, plus it didn't help our trust either. I feel that if I had trusted England better and stuck to our original plan, things would have worked much smoother. I also spent a lot of time trying to convince Turkey to attack Russia in order to aid me and England's own attacks, but that never seemed to work. later in the game, my poor game play and orders really set me back and caused me to further lose to Russia. Additionally, both me and England messed up orders and sort of NMRed at one point which really sealed the deal. Thank you all for a pleasurable game.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Russia
Seichuto (308 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 26 D
17 supply-centers, 17 units
Turkey
Brumark (2046 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 9 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
France
rannjohnson (1361 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 1 D
2 supply-centers, 1 units
Italy
Squigs44 (273 D Mod)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 1 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
England
bo_sox48 (5125 D Mod (G))
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 1 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
Germany
willie23 (100 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 1 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
Austria
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 1 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
Civil Disorders
Jacksonisboss (30 D X)Italy (Spring, 1903) with 5 centres.
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