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Finished: 09 PM Mon 29 Apr 19 UTC
Private ODC 2019 - R1 G1
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1908, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Sum-of-Squares Scoring, Hidden draw votes, Wait for orders
1 excused missed turn
Game won by ChippeRock (2564 D)
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: You may be right about France. I guess we’ll see.
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Seems to me that France, with two centers, has absolutely no incentive to draw, unless he is going to get a great result in the other game.

At present Italy is on 196 points
Russia: 64
England 36
Germany 16
France 4

Excuse me if I am not excited by that prospect
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Hey England, I believe the points are supposed to sum up to 100.
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Also, France would probably rather draw with 2 SCs than ally with you and you eliminate him - resulting in 0 SCs.

Sounds like you're trying to explain that its not you who hasn't put up the draw vote... Suspect...

Please feel free to agree/disagree with that above statement France.
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Italy, you’re an absolute delight! And we all think so.
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: i'm definitely a fan of one point vs zero points

my draw vote is in, don't really care much about the politics going on outside of really wanting england to lose.
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: and I'm not going to try to take MAO
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Fine, it gets converted to a score out of 100

So, at present 100/316 multiplied by your square =
Italy: 62.05%
Russia: 20.25%
England: 11.39%
Germany: 5.06%
France: 1.27%

Sorry, still not excited. I can gain at least 1 from France, Russia can gain 1 or 2, so can Germany. France deserves nary a jot, Italy deserves less, the rest of us deserve more. I am not voting for a draw.
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: You can gain 1 from France? LOL, Brest will take years to obtain.

Germany can't get another SC (unless its from you). Even you aren't stupid enough to believe that Germany could hold onto Trieste long term.

Russia won't just get 1-2 more, he'll get 3+ more. Trieste, Serbia, and Rumania will be quick to fall and the others won't be quick behind.

You're being foolish England in this emotion-based continuation of the game. Remember, Russia has done far more to you than I've done.

England, you're just going to bomb your own points and everyone else's points (except Russia).

SMH at you trying to suggest that you can gain 1 from France & that Germany can gain an SC...
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Damn, I thought I would be able to convince with logic England, but it is apparent he's got a little bit of emotion and optimism clouding his judgement.

England, you can't honestly say to yourself "I'm going to get Brest and Norway! Germany's going to get Trieste! Russia's going to gain several SCs from Italy! We're all going to draw happily (except Italy, he deserves it!) and no one will ever attempt to solo!"
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: England, there are damn 5 fleets (including France's fleet) support holding MAO. Even if I move a fleet out/destroy a fleet and you're able to hit Brest's support with an army in Belgium, there'll still be a French army in Paris and an Italian army in Gascony preventing you from getting Paris!

Brest will take 3 years at least, and in that time Russia will have switched spots with me.
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: So be it, then Italy. 12% is just not worth the candle for me. And if you think you deserve 62% and we should stop now; I have news for you :)
22 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: So be it?? 12% is a hell of a lot better than what you'll end up with continuing this game!
23 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: No, it's irrelevant. 0% or 12% would be exactly the same in terms of moving to the next round: worthless
23 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: England, let's get real, you need a decent showing in your 2nd game to get through either way. Even if you get your magical 8 SCs!
23 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Yes, Italy, I know that. And?
23 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Moderator: (Durga): Pause requested till the 30th
30 Mar 19 UTC Autumn, 1906: Moderator: (Durga): Looks like the 30th. Unpausing
04 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1907: In the Information Age, every word we write, every action we take online, is on the record for all time. Our grandkids to the end generations will know them. Will they be proud?
05 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (Durga): Pause requested till the 12th
12 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (Durga): play on
13 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (Durga): oops, not on gunboat anymore
13 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (Durga): I'm sorry I spoke too soon. Another pause requested
13 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (Durga): Till the 20th
21 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (Durga): Unpaused
22 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: I might as well bring this discussion public. I don't believe I've ever thrown a solo before. But it looks like I will do that here. I think I owe it to everyone to explain why.

There has been a lot of lying and manipulation in this game, of course. I've done more than my share. Italy, currently in the lead, has done plenty too. I would be an extreme hypocrite to begrudge anyone a lie or a stab. I respect good play.

My gripe with England here is that he has stabbed me for a dot at a time when he needed me. We are at a stage in the game, with Italy well in the lead, that we must unite and stop the solo, or else we all perish and lose to Italy. I have an enormous border with Italy, and in order to keep us all afloat, I've had to send all of my units south. I am Hodor, holding back the undead army.

And yet, while England and Germany need me to seal the door, they lie to me and nip at my ankles.

I'll say it to England and Germany, and to anyone else who may come across this game: If you need me to stop the solo with you, I advise you not to nip at my ankles. Or I will not stop the solo with you.

England, Germany, if you want me to fight Italy, you should not take my centers. If you remain in Norway, or take STP, the entire south will turn green by the end of 1908. England has told me, essentially, "fuck you, do what you want." And I shall.
23 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Good game Italy.
23 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Thanks for making your case public, Russia.

I hope you can see how ridiculous it is to threaten to throw the game every time you are attacked? You attacked me all game, but I just defended and did my best. As for Norway being 'your' center... Had you really wanted to do the best against Italy you would have moved to Black Sea and given up your Northern fleet. That you didn't do that told Germany and me what we needed to know: you were at best a reluctant ally.

Throw it if you want. Personally, I think in a tournament it is unacceptable to do so when you still have a good chance of a draw. You may not care about your points or mine, but there are other players, not in this game, who would be affected.

Anyway, that's enough. One way or the other it will soon be over.
23 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Well, not only did you & Germany call Russia's "bluff", you went all in on it. That was your gamble to make - and it turns out he wasn't bluffing.
23 Apr 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Fine, I have made my point about playing fair in a tournament, which I think is valid. Clearly, Russia sees it differently, which is OK. It makes no difference to me: 6/7 squared or 0 is precisely the same in terms of getting through to the next round.
24 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: That filthy Russki kneels low
His Roma's cock is all aglow
He loves to suck and squeeze b(e)low
Gasps Rome, 'My God! My Tsar! My Hoe!'
24 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: Well looky here, hold my beer, I see a shot cross my bow,
A key stroke from the pink bloke, tryina raise an eyebrow.
This smitten kitten from Britain, sad, mad, snakebitten,
Just sitten and spitten, like he can’t find his mitten.

I suggest that you best go back to sipping high tea.
You nyet wanna get in a rap battle with me.

Coming out here all salty, with a fucking four-liner,
Like yer some kinda poet; not a habitual whiner.
A sublime little rhyme, about a cock-sucking criminal.
Okay, so you’re just as crude as you are unoriginal.

You aint, like a Saint, bro, you more like the damned,
But let’s be clear, why we here, and your Chunnel is jammed,
It’s not cause we fought, or your lack of gentility,
It’s not the pungent odor of your contemptibility.

It’s not for your stabs, or the insults you threw,
Although, we both know, that all happened too.
No, you’re taking this loss, like a turkey takes stuffing,
Cause you tried to call my bluff when I wasn’t bluffing.
24 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: Damn, absolute put down...
24 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: He picked up the mic. I just dropped it.
25 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: The rapping Russian's lines are loooooong
The scansion? Well, that's just all wrong.
There's culture, meter, rhyme and art
But Russia's lines aren't worth one fart.

His Eyetie Master loves them though
'Oh Russia! Now get back below
Your poetry and play are shit
But when you lick, now that's a hit!'
25 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: Step up, step up, to the carnival show, see,
The one and only one-trick pony.
He’s not fit to trot, or to jump off a dock
He just writes poems about dudes sucking cock.

Hey tooth-missin Briton, we heard this one before,
You lose, then you call everyone else a gay whore.
It’s not witty, it’s shitty, and it’s offensive too,
It says less about me than it says about you.
25 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: I can visualize Eminem saying this in a song for some reason...
25 Apr 19 UTC Spring, 1908: The rotten Russki takes offence!
He throws the game and screams 'You're bent!
But if he were not Rome's bum boy
These lines would not his calm destroy

How must it be, I idly ask
To wake each morning, think 'At last!
Today I'll plan my own demise
So Roma's cock can get a rise!'?
26 Apr 19 UTC Roma's slut is getting old
His jaw and tongue are scabbed with mold
But Roma isn't finished yet
“Bend over boy, my big baguette...”
26 Apr 19 UTC Well, that looks like the end.

Well played, Italy. Just the right Svengali hold on the weak players to succeed. Even after you stabbed Russia he still wouldn't commit 100% against you.

Bad luck, Germany, we defended well but in the end, there's only so much you can do.

Ah well, have to solo the other now, I guess :)
27 Apr 19 UTC As I said: "England, Germany, if you want me to fight Italy, you should not take my centers. If you remain in Norway, or take STP, the entire south will turn green by the end of 1908."

I wasn't bluffing.
27 Apr 19 UTC Well, England & Germany, it wasn't a bad move to completely ignore Russia because "there's no way he would throw the game, he needs the points!"

But, what would of really helped you guys make the right choice would of been if you had known that Russia soloed (I think? At least he had a very strong result.) his other game, meaning this game was meaningless to him - and he could do anything out of spite just because this game wasn't worth anything to him.

Also England, you would of gotten your support to Brest, if you hadn't immediately ratted me out to Russia. Than you might of been able to cut out Germany and get your 3 way draw (yes Germany, there were so plans to do that).

Great Russian backstab England & Germany, but unfortunately you didn't take into account a crucial piece of information (which it was unfortunate you didn't know) that factored into Russia's decision to throw this game - thus, he could follow up on his threat to throw this game. I was happy that my efforts to convince y'all that Russia, with your help, would of walked all over me.

Good game, England & Russia, you're both great players who deserve to move onto the next round (though I think Russia was the much better player - England, early into the game, there was absolutely no need to bother Russia by taking Sweden; yes, he would of stabbed you eventually due to our rapid growths in the South, but that was a couple years out and you should of focused on taking out France - ultimately, that was why your alliance with Germany was never successful).

This was a fun game Russia, even with the multiple times we backstabbed each other, and I absolutely loved that pitch you made for the Wintergreen alliance. Lists out all of the good reasons why we should ally (and with some help of the non-coordination of Austria & Turkey, which would of slowed our growth, it worked out great for both of us - at least until we started fighting each other, but that was due to my more rapid pace of growth and your hitting a roadblock with the England/Germany alliance).
27 Apr 19 UTC Good game Italy. I always liked a good Wintergreen.

This game became quite nasty in the end, and that's unfortunate. I hope that the next game I'm involved in with any of these players goes better than this one.

I also want to be clear that my move to back up my words were not based on the current tournament standings. I am a vengeful player. And if I feel that someone is making a poor play to screw me over, I will be clear about the consequences and carry them out. If I do not act on my threats, then I have no credibility in any game.
28 Apr 19 UTC Ah, things become much clearer now: thanks, Italy.

A few criticisms I'd like to answer:

Taking Sweden in '02. This was absolutely the right play. Russia had built in St.P in '01, was growing fast in the South and had to be pushed back. It was always his plan to hurt me in the North while I was occupied with France. Plus, how could I defeat France or Russia without builds? My plan worked perfectly until France decided to commit suicide by just allowing you to walk into his centers.

One suicide I could deal with in this game; the second was too much.

On that point, Russia says "this game became quite nasty towards the end". No shit, Sherlock: that's what happens when you throw games. I must say I think it is disingenuous of you to claim that it was nothing to do with the tournament standings: I bet if you had been on 35 points after the first game you would have swallowed your pride soon enough!

My thoughts on the matter are clear: it is acceptable to throw a game only when you have no chance at all of a draw: the choice being merely whom to allow to win. The logic of the game presupposes that everyone will act in their (perceived) best interest. If everyone reacts to a stab by throwing all their centers to a third player, the game dies.
28 Apr 19 UTC I worked very hard to stop the solo. All you had to do was not cut out my ankles while I held back the undead hordes. I made very clear what I would do if you chose to chip away at my centers. And I meant it. In the end, the choice was yours.
28 Apr 19 UTC I worked very hard to stop the solo. All you had to do was not cut out my ankles while I held back the undead hordes. I made very clear what I would do if you chose to chip away at my centers. And I meant it. In the end, the choice was yours.
28 Apr 19 UTC That said, I understand your frustration. I’d be frustrated too.
28 Apr 19 UTC Ah, but that is exactly the point, Russia. You did not work hard enough against Italy! Look back again at that retreat to Smyrna: it was a terrible move, isolating your fleet and allowing Italy into the Black Sea.

I wrote and wrote to you telling you why you had to retreat to the Black Sea but you wouldn't have it: keeping the fleet in St.P was more important to you than defeating Italy. That fleet had only one use: to cause mischief for me later. Why would I accept an alliance where only you grow, I get no builds, and you still have a lever against me?

Finally, I was satisfied that taking (back!) Norway and St.P didn't actually hurt you against Italy. It was easy for you to destroy that fleet and Burgundy and for us to beat Italy as 3 equals. In a normal game that would have worked: I didn't know you already had 100 points...

Anyway, that really is enough. Post mortems are fun but I have another game. Maths suggests I need at least a 14 center draw to get through, so I need to concentrate on that!

Thanks all.
28 Apr 19 UTC In the end, you thought I would be content to hold the line, while you chipped away at my centers. That was a miscalculation on your part.
28 Apr 19 UTC Yes, but his miscalculation stems from his lack of knowledge about your other game's solo - which he had no chance of knowing. It's kind of unfortunate for him, but I suppose that's how the game is played.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

ChippeRock (2564 D)
Won. Bet: 5 D, won: 35 D
18 supply-centers, 13 units
SimonMH (106 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
dannysparkes (567 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
4 supply-centers, 5 units
Survived. Bet: 5 D
3 supply-centers, 7 units
gweilowizard (132 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Baskineli (100 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Ayreon (3398 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
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