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Finished: 05 PM Fri 25 Jan 19 UTC
Private Help Durga Get Better at Gunboat-2
2 days /phase
Pot: 70 D - Autumn, 1910, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Sum-of-Squares Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Durga (3609 D)
03 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1903: Moderator: (Szpoti): The match has now been unpaused.
09 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1905: Game paused to prevent an NMR.
09 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1905: I'll ask the mods.
09 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1905: This is a gunboat isn't it?
09 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1905: Yes, it is.
09 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1905: Moderator: (bo_sox48): lolwut
09 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1905: Moderator: (bo_sox48): Paused by request to prevent an NMR. If you object to this pause, please contact us at webdipmod@gmail.com.
10 Dec 18 UTC Spring, 1905: Moderator: (dargorygel): Unpausing... and not resetting the time. Looks like everyone has orders in. Email the mods if this is an issue. Goodluck!
12 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: Moderator: (Claesar): Paused by request for 24hours.
15 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: Moderator: (Claesar): Game unpaused.
30 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (jmo1121109): Game paused for 3 days due to a players unexpected loss of internet access.
03 Jan 19 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moderator: (Claesar): Game unpaused, have fun all!
24 Jan 19 UTC No idea why you pulled back Italy but GG!
25 Jan 19 UTC gg, well done Durga.
25 Jan 19 UTC gg durga. not sure why italy gifted you the solo either, but, here we are. you played it well
25 Jan 19 UTC haha! I guess we don't need to help Durga get any better.

I pulled back because Turkey killed Austria and without Austria's help, we didn't stand a chance. With the attack on Ionian, I figured Turkey was angling to eliminate me from a draw that wasn't going to happen, so what was the point in trying to block England at that point?
25 Jan 19 UTC Survived! Good ally Durga... Not much point in trying to stab you other than it was fun. I think by the time I made the decision it was too late.
25 Jan 19 UTC Austria was never in a position to stop England. He never made a real effort and if you look at the board, he didn't have a u Austrian sc.

Otoh, you could've stopped the solo easily by doing literally anything to the west
25 Jan 19 UTC Iand the attack on ionian was bc you literally fucked with me all game even when it was clear I was just trying to stop England from soloing. You should Ed moved west years before I even went into ionian
25 Jan 19 UTC Very well played Durga. Very well played.

I'm glad this one is done, I was beyond frustrated for most of the game with one person or another. This is a learning game for everyone, so please rip into me as much as I'm about to rip into you.

Italy - Why oh why didn't you support hold Greece when I had it. Or once you were in Aegean, why didn't you take Greece for yourself? This was not a very competent Jugg, we should have been able to beat it. And then when you were in Armenia, you didn't tap Sev....I was very lucky to get into Rum without your help. After that, I have no problems with your play, besides that 1909 tap of MAO.

Germany - I sincerely appreciated your rearguard attempts against the FG, and tried to help you keep Moscow. That is why I gave you Vienna. You should not have interpreted it any other way - there was absolutely no other reason why I wouldn't move to Vienna. I did not tap it at all. So then, why on earth would you actively work against me after that generosity? You above all else fucked me, and for no good reason.

France - Good effort, but I think you could've salvaged things in fall 1909 man, I really do. Italy would've been there to help you for a line. Tap of MAO, you take Marseilles and you'd be golden. You just gave up too early. There was a line with you in Spain and Marseilles, but with England in Portugal.

Russia - Not too too much to say here, actually. Just personally frustrated because you didn't try to change course ever.

Turkey - this solo I have the honor of pinning on you. I'm assuming you saw the same line that I did to stop the solo, yet with ENGLAND SURROUNDING VIENNA you choose to attack me. Then, with England in Bohemia and Munich, and needing Tyrolia to seal the line, you move on me again? And take Ionian? I really, really want to know what you were thinking there, because you single-handedly ensured the game was over then. Also, why did you never turn on Russia? 1905 Russia was essentially dead and buried and I was offering you peace in face of the incoming EF. Yet you move an army into Bulgaria. I mean, just the constant antagonism against Italy and I was too much. If you wanted to grow, you had a safe avenue to the north that would have made you friendly with Italy and I, allowed us to put more troops against the stalemate line, eliminated someone from the draw, and actually fight the solo. But you just never did it, and you constantly made Italy and I fear we were going to be attacked by you if we ever turned our backs away. Just awful.
25 Jan 19 UTC "He never made a real effort"

Because you were crawling up my ass the whole time. Gee, I wonder why I tried supporting England into Warsaw and Moscow. Its what I had to do to make you realize the threat England posed and get you to back off. That was me threatening you, saying "So help me god, I will help England solo if you don't back off" and you Never. Did.
25 Jan 19 UTC Yeah. I’m afraid I have to agree with austria. Generally as Turkey, stopping a western solo means giving reassurance that the border powers don’t have a threat behind them

I made some bad guesses, but mostly I was either having to deal with France coming from the West or Turkey from the east. It’s hard to defend both unless you make every guess right.
25 Jan 19 UTC Sorry but I refuse to take any blame for the England solo when Italy didn't make one single. Move westward all game and chose to harass me for years. Much more important than keeping Austria alive (not important) was Italy supporting France and not letting England have Iberia for free, which is what he did.
25 Jan 19 UTC And I never actually made an aggressive move vs Italy until it was clear he wasn't actually going to do shit to stop England, which at that point I stopped trying to hopelessly get him to actually do something productive and just do what I wanted.

By the time I moved into ionian the English solo was guaranteed because Italy never made a single attempt to get involved in the western theater
25 Jan 19 UTC No, I never tried to change course, Gold. I still feel really good about my moves, but you outguessed me and then Germany suicided into Warsaw.

The thing is, if I see an Austria opening like you did, I assume they're incompetent and will fold quickly. In Gunboat, I look for competent allies that I can count on to make sensible moves. I fundamentally disagree with your opener.

Perhaps I should've considered attacking Turkey and then going for a Wintergreen, but that never felt like the right move. From your perspective I can understand frustration, but look at it from mine. At what point in the game, just name any season+year, should I have stopped moving against you? It always made more sense to continue the assault.
25 Jan 19 UTC Well, your incompetent read of the game is why England won, Kingdroid. 1907-1909 my fleets were in Iberia, and you kept marching up the Balkans and positioning fleets around Ionian. Your stupid attacks on Austria meant you clearly didn't understand what it would take to defend against England so I couldn't leave Ioninan unprotected, so I couldn't move all my fleets west but had to have a rearguard. You'll recall I was sitting in Spain and left to help France.

So, yeah, that was one of the stupidest Turkey approaches I've seen in a while.
25 Jan 19 UTC I was hoping to work together with England against France, and England did support me into BUR in Autumn 1902. But tthbutn England took Holland. And from that point i did not know what to do, because also France attack me now. But moving to Warsaw was indeed a very stupid thing to do. That was really suicide for me.
25 Jan 19 UTC I actually felt bad about that Germany lol. I'm sorry. I just saw bigger growth your way.

France, I liked your stab on me. I thought that was the end of my solo run.
25 Jan 19 UTC I mean, Russia if I were in your shoes and saw Turkey put a fleet into Bulgaria in 1903, I would've said f*** this.
25 Jan 19 UTC Italy, not once were you properly positioned to stop the England solo. You were so afraid to make one positive move towards me all game. And no, killing Austria did not give england the solo., you completely failing to move west soon enough (long before I ever had a chance to kill austria) is what did it in.

you moving to spainw as actuallyo ne of the DUMBEST moves you could've done to stop england. WHen you mvoed to Spain you should've moved to MAO, had tou done that then you would've been able to hold off the english solo with the help of france.
25 Jan 19 UTC as soon as I saw that completely ridiculous move from Wmed > Spain > Wmed I knew you wer enever going to do anything useful this game and gave up trying to get you to do anything besides waste your moves
25 Jan 19 UTC Lol, now i see my English war really crap in my message with a lot of typo's.
25 Jan 19 UTC Was*
25 Jan 19 UTC I have to admit that I wasn't impressed by the fleet in Bulgaria in 1903, indeed. That might've been a good time to switch to the Wintergreen. Perhaps that's a lesson I can take away from this game.
25 Jan 19 UTC That’s moronic. I’m telling you I didn’t move because you were a threat. The move to spain was to beat England to it and cut Wngland out which would have worked, but then I thought better of it.

Funny, how everyone who should have been fighting England is telling you they didn’t because you were attacking everyone and somehow it’s their fault

I don’t believe for a second you weren’t planning on attacking me as well
25 Jan 19 UTC Russia gave it to him in '06-'07, perhaps because of Turkey.
25 Jan 19 UTC No, I had to cede Mos+War due to the Austrian attack. Only way for me to survive. Would've maybe allowed me to share in the draw if we had held Iberia.
26 Jan 19 UTC I hope durga gave you a nice present for the solo, Italy :)
26 Jan 19 UTC Ogion is a good friend. Don't be mean.
26 Jan 19 UTC I’ve faced worse. What is sad is that kingdroid isn’t going to learn how to assemble a gunboat alliance to block the solo from this.
26 Jan 19 UTC I am a little shocked you took Budapest and Vienna, Turkey.
26 Jan 19 UTC I was getting ready to take Munich, if he hadn't killed me :/
26 Jan 19 UTC Russia, I'm not saying you would have survived, only that that move was what made him strong enough so that my incursions had very little effect.
My other mistake was dancing with Italy... I think ultimately we wanted to ally, but he got scared (rightfully so) of the E/F so we started border maneuvers that sucked up resources. Still very fun, and happy for Durga.
26 Jan 19 UTC Yes. I was out for blood and happy when you went north and quickly thought better of it. Sorry that didn't work out.

Ironically I'd have headed west from the outset, but I quickly got worried and sensed opportunity when Turkey mess up those opening moves and let me into Syria. That's the first time I've pulled that off and then gotten stymied. (Sorry I just didn't see the Sevastopol move, Goldie. That was me not thinking enough)
26 Jan 19 UTC I disagree, Kalel. Losing Mos+War wasn't a problem at all as long as "we" were able to defend Iberia, which isn't hard. We've all frequently done that.
27 Jan 19 UTC I agree that losing Mos+War wasn't a problem, as long as "we" were giving up and going for the draw. I expect seasoned game players to do everything they can possibly do to not draw, and when I attacked Eng I expected others to join in... but I don't play here too often, mostly a F2F player.
27 Jan 19 UTC To be fair to Russia, I was actively trying to support England into his SC's and he was being overrun. If he had tried to retake Warsaw and Moscow, 1) It wouldn't have been successful and 2) Turkey or myself would have likely cut him out.

And to be fair to me, Turkey wanted me dead every second of the game. There was no way I could turn to fight England.
27 Jan 19 UTC To be fair to Russia, I was actively trying to support England into his SC's and he was being overrun. If he had tried to retake Warsaw and Moscow, 1) It wouldn't have been successful and 2) Turkey or myself would have likely cut him out.

And to be fair to me, Turkey wanted me dead every second of the game. There was no way I could turn to fight England.
27 Jan 19 UTC I do sympathize with players being too eager to draw though.
27 Jan 19 UTC Well, as I've said, Kalel, normally you'd be right and I was planning to help you defend Iberia (gunboat gives rise to miscommunications like standing you out of MAO), but that typically involves the non-sologin players cooperating. Trying to cut someone out of the draw is always a gamble that you'll end up throwing the game by attacking.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Durga (3609 D)
Won. Bet: 10 D, won: 70 D
18 supply-centers, 15 units
Kingdroid (226 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
9 supply-centers, 8 units
Ogion (3898 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Claesar (4656 D Mod)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
KalelChase (1476 D (G))
Survived. Bet: 10 D
1 supply-centers, 2 units
goldfinger0303 (3157 D Mod)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
0 supply-centers, 1 units
tobieee911 (102 D (S))
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
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