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Finished: 02 PM Sat 02 Feb 19 UTC
Private Help Durga Get Better at Gunboat
2 days /phase
Pot: 70 D - Autumn, 1913, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Sum-of-Squares Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Claesar (4656 D Mod)
01 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1903: Moderator: (dargorygel): This game has been paused by request. Please notify the mods with any issues with this, and vote, 'unpause' asap to facilitate the game starting again. Thanks.
03 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1903: Moderator: (Szpoti): The match has now been unpaused.
30 Dec 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: Moderator: (jmo1121109): Game paused for 3 days due to a players unexpected loss of internet access.
03 Jan 19 UTC Autumn, 1908: Moderator: (Claesar): Game unpaused. Have fun all!
30 Jan 19 UTC Good win Claesar... Not sure if Ogion thought he had a shot at it, but he kept me off your side for a long time. Good game all.
30 Jan 19 UTC gg, I guess. Though I'm not sure whether this is a good lesson for Durga :-P
30 Jan 19 UTC I thougt Ogion had a shot at it. That's why I signalled peace to Russia in Autumn 1909. But you built a fleet in Sevas (in hindsight justified) which enraged me into this solo shot. Though I never should've made it.. How on earth did I get to take and hold Munich?!
30 Jan 19 UTC In fact, in Autumn 1910 I was still worried about a German solo, which is why I made another peace gesture to Russia. So I guess I wasn't that enraged after all :-) Time heals wounds.
30 Jan 19 UTC 3 games, 3 solos. jfc everyone needs a lesson on stalemate lines
30 Jan 19 UTC oh wait one of the solos was in a different group. nvm
30 Jan 19 UTC Yeah, Autumn 1909 was when I built a fleet up north too which is why I think Germany came after me... pissed you both off at the same time, big mistake.
30 Jan 19 UTC I want to know what the fuck Germany was smoking this game. No way in hellllll did he ever have a shot at the solo
30 Jan 19 UTC TY Austria for disbanding that Apulia army though
30 Jan 19 UTC Like dude, once Austria was **in Munich** why did you keep fighting me?
30 Jan 19 UTC Glad this is over though. Every gunboat I'm in has been infuriating.
30 Jan 19 UTC Yeah, at the time it seemed like a good idea to prep you up with a build. Didn't work though.
31 Jan 19 UTC Pretty simple. 1909 there was the attack on London, and then the fleet in St P. That’s classic “let’s cut Germany out of it” move. I never for an instant thought I had a solo shot. I was worried about being cut out of the draw.

Then I was simply trying to prevent that by letting austria get big until you needed my help and I simply misjudged and by then we were too entangled to manage a grecful stalemate line. I was actually trying to get out of your hair for a little while and making a gas of it. I let Munich go because my then I was annoyed that it seemed Russia and France were still focusing on me that late. After all not disbanding Finland when I’d vacated Moscow instead disbanding a southern fleet was annoying. Also I was trying to help you keep Marseilles by cutting bugrgubdy and getting out of Paris and Vrest. It was dumb (bad) luck that I ended up with two useless builds and you two had disbands. I’m still not sure how that happened

Not my best effort for sure.
31 Jan 19 UTC Glad it’s over though. Marks my last diplomacy game I think.
31 Jan 19 UTC Well, not only bad luck. In 1911 Russia disbands Denmark, but you take it and Moscow anyhow. At that point I probably had it regardless, but this helped. Pru-Ber instead of Pru-Liv would've allowed you to build and fight me, but I suppose that's part hindsight.
31 Jan 19 UTC "That’s classic “let’s cut Germany out of it” move."

No, no I don't buy that for one second. I moved to London because you took *every* English SC *and* the Belgian neutral. You were being greedy. That you say *I* was trying to cut *you* out is insulting.

1907 - I'm trying to push on Austria's Italian centers and help you back into Munich. I need a build for another fleet in the Med, so I move into Belgium. I had assumed that you gaining Munich and Edi would be enough to keep you even. But I needed another fleet build in case Italy decided to kamikaze on me. I half expected Tunis to bolt for Spain that turn. Me in Belgium and Liverpool while you have London, Edi and Scandinavia is a nice, balanced split of everything. But instead not only do you take Belgium back, but you sacrifice Munich to do it! And take Liverpool instead of Edi. So from then on, I operated on the assumption that you wanted to take me out.

I gave you a chance though. Figured "Fine if he won't let me have two from our fight with England, maybe he'll settle for one" because I still needed more units for the fight against Austria. So I took London, and moved ***everything*** else away from you, so there should've been no doubt as to my intentions.

And then you built a god damn fleet. So from that moment on, I was suiciding on you.

So no, don't give me this bullshit that you were afraid of being eliminated. You forced Russia and I to try and eliminate you due to your own actions. And we were successful with it too.

I was just waiting the whole time for some kind of truce flag from you. I gave my own in spring 1912. You should've realized right then that we had to stop playing around. Instead you let Austria into Burgundy and Berlin and just threw the whole damn game. You were still...*still* trying to cut Russia out, stupidly. Even to your dying breath. You say you helped by cutting Burgundy, but you ignore the fact that instead of defending Kiel, you took Holland from me and LOST THE GAME.

So please, do us all a service and don't try to play this off as "I thought I was going to get eliminated" and just admit you were bad and greedy.
31 Jan 19 UTC By that time I'd given pu on you and Russia. Whatever signals you were sending were clear only to you. There was no way to know what you'd do next since you'd shown at minimum you were a dot grabber.
31 Jan 19 UTC NOte that letting Austria into burgundy happened the same time as your truce signal. I was supposed to be telepathic in that.

Really it was the Russian fleet in 1910 that made just say fuck it.
31 Jan 19 UTC You'd fought me quite a bit, and I'd held Belgium since early on. I'd retreated and we worked on England. At that time, there were four English centers. Then I figure we have an alliance and no sooner do I turn south to deal with Austria and north to Edinburgh, when you pop up in Belgium kind of for funsies. Hard to say how you supposedly helped me get Munich back, when you were pushing into both Italy and me at the time. Fine, I take Belgium back, but the dot grab is what precipitated the Liverpool move instead of finishing England. At that point, I wasn't inclined to give that up. Then you move south and i figure we're good to go, except AGAIN with the little stab. Of course I'm building a fleet. I'v got Norway to deal with AND random incursions from you. So, I'm supposed to trust your intentions when you've already repeatedly shown that you'll take advantage of anything left open? One sure fire way to get stabbed is to have an undefended border with a dot grabber. I was proven right in 1910 when you AGAIN attack Beligum and move for Edinburgh. If you'd stayed put in Liverpool, i wouldn't have taken it.

Long story short, you had a zillion chances to make peace and be an ally, but at every turn, you didn't.

As for Russia, I backed off, left Norway alone, moved away from Warsaw.... only to see a fleet in St. P. At taht point i've got war on two fronts. Tell me, that's supposedly me soloing? Bullshit.

Again, the lesson is "attacking players who are critical to the draw is a REALLY bad idea."
31 Jan 19 UTC gg, sorry i played like garbage and handed austria the solo very early on
31 Jan 19 UTC ok i didnt hand austria the solo, but i definitely fucked up big time. turns out im a fucking awful italy player lmao
31 Jan 19 UTC So am I, Kingdroid..

I was planning on working together with you after you ceded Trieste back to me, but then you disbanded army Venice. That meant I could most likely stab for two of your four centres with you completely out of position and therefore unable to ever punish me for it. Couldn't resist.
31 Jan 19 UTC I was a terrible Italy until a good Italy player bascially said "dont bother with the Lepanto" I find going West is the best option. Second lesson. Never leave Venice open and never leave Ionian open. Just too tempting.
Now, i'm a mediocre Italy.
31 Jan 19 UTC I tried going west, but that has never brought me anything either :-(
31 Jan 19 UTC Okay, Germany, be honest with me here. Do you even check the moves for supports that weren't successful, or do you look only at the screen? Because if you even bothered to check, you would see I was trying to send signals.
31 Jan 19 UTC I probably missed a couple of turns, but generally units that don't move, i check what they're up to. Of course, after 1910, i'd given up.
31 Jan 19 UTC Like the support for Austria to displace me from Piedmont? Those moves? Or the SH to Austria in 1911? I did notice, say, the attacks on Belgium, Holland, Kiel. Yeah, those I spotted.
31 Jan 19 UTC I think i do not have much to say, it's clear i'm not good enough for this level of diplomacy
31 Jan 19 UTC It's hard to play England when Russia opens north. I wouldn't have built in Lvp as a result, but that wasn't your downfall. You made one small mistake in Spring 1905 (not accounting for the French retreat), but other than that your moves seemed fine. It was a tough spot.
31 Jan 19 UTC Yes, but i think i should not have moved to Barents Sea in spring 1905, but to EDI or NAO.
31 Jan 19 UTC @claesar. The attack on Trieste was never meant to be aggressive, in the sense that I always meant for you to have it back. I just couldn't use the build to get a different center and you, understandably, took it as pure aggression.

Yeah I gambled the Venice disband. In hindsight I'll never disband that way again
31 Jan 19 UTC No, I understood you taking Trieste. When you built only fleets rather than defending it, I knew what was up. Like I said, I was going to work with you after that. Until you gave me too much.
31 Jan 19 UTC S1907 - support Belgium to Ruhr. I thought you'd be moving Ruhr to Kiel with support, to not allow an Austrian retreat. Wanted to make sure Austria didn't bounce you. Note I moved to Irish and not London or Liv.

A1907 - I support hold you in Munich and move my English fleet even further away from you.

A1908 - I actually support hold you in Munich

1909 you were trying to eliminate me, so of course I supported Austria to Piedmont.

S1912 - support hold Berlin from Kiel while blocked Austria's move to Burgundy.

There were signs everywhere, man.
31 Jan 19 UTC Ok good. Glad my intentions were clear.

Yeah... I suppose I should've just disbanded south. Felt like I was gonna get ran over by turkey or someth if I did that tho
31 Jan 19 UTC So let's recap

"Note that letting Austria into burgundy happened the same time as your truce signal. I was supposed to be telepathic in that."

Answer: False, it happened a turn earlier. No telepathy required (though sometimes in GB it is).

"You'd fought me quite a bit, and I'd held Belgium since early on. I'd retreated and we worked on England."

I had Belgium first. You took it from me in 1903. And we only worked on England because *I* broke him, and France was a wall of armies.

"At that time, there were four English centers."

Yes, and I wanted two of them. Hence my tap of London in A1906. Even split. But since you didn't give it to me, I decided to take Belgium instead. Note I didn't support myself in, merely tapped in.

"Then you move south and i figure we're good to go, except AGAIN with the little stab."

Again, I wanted an even split, as I had tried to communicate to you. But you were greedy. Seriously, you took everything for yourself and left nothing for me. You think that would fly in a press game? So why do you think it would fly in a gunboat? I wasn't grabbing dots I was asking for my fair share.
31 Jan 19 UTC @England - you played a good game. I had no qualms with most of your moves (though maybe being a bit proactive would be better). Just miscalculating that retreat killed ya
31 Jan 19 UTC @Italy I think you just didbanded poorly. Turkey wasn't even remotely threatening to yoj
31 Jan 19 UTC ^
31 Jan 19 UTC Hmm, then it is probably just my inexperience. I really did not see that retreat coming.
31 Jan 19 UTC no you're definitely right. I played it really badly. lesson learned :)
31 Jan 19 UTC i think i might be misremembering my thought process. i think i felt i needed the fleets more for some reason. and I don't think I was actually looking at how poorly positioned i was to respond to an austrian attack post-disband.

reall,y in hindsight I have no idea what was going through my head when I made that disband lmao
01 Feb 19 UTC Yeah, I just wasn't paying close enough attention. My heart really was'mt in this game

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Claesar (4656 D Mod)
Won. Bet: 10 D, won: 70 D
18 supply-centers, 13 units
Ogion (3898 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
10 supply-centers, 8 units
goldfinger0303 (3157 D Mod)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
4 supply-centers, 6 units
KalelChase (1476 D (G))
Survived. Bet: 10 D
2 supply-centers, 4 units
tobieee911 (102 D (S))
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Kingdroid (226 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Durga (3609 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
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