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Finished: 12 PM Fri 19 Oct 18 UTC
To WAR!!!!!!!
2 days /phase
Pot: 200 D - Spring, 2000, Finished
Modern Diplomacy II, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
08 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1998: The passive/friendly approach worked well for you Russia because Ukraine was interested. Mine failed because Turkey wasn't.
08 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1998: So I am now forced into going at Turkey and turtling my line between Ukraine/Germany. Spain has to contend with Russia/Germany in the Northern seas. Not a good situation long term lol.
08 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1998: Maybe, though even in 97 I had an army in Siberia. You are right that Ukraine being open to the idea helped me. But a lot of that was also about Poland NMR-ing and me reaching out to Ukraine and trying to make amends after a pretty hostile opening between us.
08 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1998: True, like I said it was an opening - might not have led to much, but Ukraine had few units in the area so Georgia and Rostov could've fallen. It's all hypothetical at this point lol
12 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: Ukr - I'll move out of Central Russia to give a bit more breathing room there. Can you use Rostov to support hold Georgia, just to be safe?

Turkey - Bounce again in Kazakh. How about also bouncing Caucasus and Armenia in Azerbaijan?

Germany - Tell me what you want me to do with North Sea. I'm thinking North to Channel, London support hold Wales, and then we can pop the fleet in Irish Sea. Thoughts?
12 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: Yes, I'll support Georgia.
12 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: Hmmm... and thus the Great Italian Wall has been formed :)
12 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: Losing Austria was destined to happen, now I am pretty comfortably set in place.
12 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: Sounds good enough to me, Russia
13 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: @Russia Sounds good!

@Ukraine Why the hell is there fleet Sev?

@Italy Hmm... 5 fleets, I wonder what they're doing there
13 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: @Turkey I openly mentioned my plan to build another fleet prior to the builds, and you didn't complain then.
13 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: We can bounce WBS if you prefer.
13 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: I'm still interested in helping you take Serbia.
13 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: @Ukraine got it, will bounce in WBS
13 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: @Turkey - I can't advance against Ukraine and Germany. You have been undecided. I have no other option.
13 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1999: Continued - I have asked you to join me for awhile and you've non-committed. I can just as equally help you in the Balkans and help with Rumania.

You're going to need to decide at some point - 4 way draw with Russia/Germany/Ukraine or 3 way draw with Spain/Italy.
15 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1999: @Russia I'm concerned about the amount of units moving towards me.
15 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1999: I'll push Volga north. Siberia and Caucasus can just keep bouncing with Iran and Armenia. Cool?
15 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1999: @Germany - Wales move to Channel? I can tap MAO to cut support and support the move from a couple places so it will work.
15 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1999: Cool with me
16 Oct 18 UTC So, what now guys? Spain and I are pretty locked down on our lines.
16 Oct 18 UTC I propose the Russia-Ukraine-Germany alliance turn on each other. We'll watch :P
16 Oct 18 UTC I must decline that proposal
16 Oct 18 UTC Seriously though, what is the end game?
16 Oct 18 UTC Good question. I think your line can be broken.
16 Oct 18 UTC It can be broken
16 Oct 18 UTC I can't do much except sit still and wait at the moment.
16 Oct 18 UTC Another Turkish army in Macedonia and a Turkish fleet in Eastern Sahara would allow you two to breakthrough in the Balkans and/or Mediterranean.
16 Oct 18 UTC Once Turkey or Germany makes some progress I'll be able to help out again.
16 Oct 18 UTC I'm not sure there's a safe way to get an army into Macedonia at the moment without doing some coordinating in chat that Italy could take advantage of.
16 Oct 18 UTC Actually, I just noticed that I'm in WBS now (sorry, Turkey, I just sort of assumed that we would bounce again without explicitly clarifying), but that means I could support Istanbul into Bulgaria if you want, while still using Rumania + Hungary to support Bulgaria into Serbia, so Italy has to guess between keeping Bulgaria out of Macedonia and adequately protecting Serbia?
16 Oct 18 UTC (The plan doesn't quite work as described, but maybe we could figure something out?)
16 Oct 18 UTC Actually, if Germany attacked Switzerland from Alsace (with support) and helped support Slovakia to Austria, then I could hit Croatia with Austria, and if Greece also hit Albania then we actually could guarantee taking down Serbia this turn, but only if I take it from Hungary (with support from Bulgaria and Rumania, of course). The caveat is that Italy, knowing the plan, could decide to take Austria, but this would only be possible by sacrificing Switzerland, which I'm pretty sure would be worse for Italy in the long run.

(Sorry for wall of text. I might be overcomplicating things.)
16 Oct 18 UTC Greece would also be at risk..
16 Oct 18 UTC Your assessment is close. Turkey has all the keys into breaking my line open. But by doing the moves necessary, I could also break him. I still want him to work with me and break up into Ukraine instead of me, but for some reason that didn’t happen and now Ukraine is positioned to hold his line forever.
16 Oct 18 UTC Yeah, at this point I don't think Turkey would stand to gain anything by switching sides.

On an unrelated note, I would probably be fine with a 6-way draw. I'm not picky.
16 Oct 18 UTC Also, Greece would not be at risk if Turkey supported Istanbul into Greece from Aegean.
16 Oct 18 UTC I'm not in any position to demand something, I am just pretty much saying that unless an NMR happens, the German/Ukraine/Russian vs Spain/Italy line is stalemated now. Turkey holds the lone ability to grow and it isn't guaranteed by any stretch.
16 Oct 18 UTC Yeah, it all comes down to Turkey at this point.
16 Oct 18 UTC I put my Draw vote in since it's out of my ultimate hands. Again, just highlighting the state we are currently in and want to see what people's goals are.
17 Oct 18 UTC @All placed my draw vote in. Seems like I couldn't get too much more from being cagey. :p

@Russia Let's not bounce Kazakhstan
17 Oct 18 UTC @Turkey, I will support Istanbul into Bulgaria, on the off-chance that it helps in some way. This does not actual constitute a suggestion that you take any particular course of action.
17 Oct 18 UTC *actually
18 Oct 18 UTC Looks like the guy who is protected between Ukraine/Germany is the only holdout...
18 Oct 18 UTC Just noticed that everyone else is voting draw. It's tempting to stab a bunch here, but I doubt I'd be able to make it all the way across to a solo and Ukraine and Germany have been great allies. GG everyone.
18 Oct 18 UTC Also, kudos to Italy and Spain for getting their act together quickly and forming up a well structured line while under heavy pressure.
18 Oct 18 UTC Good game, everyone.
18 Oct 18 UTC Stabbing isn't necessarily useful in Draw-size unless you know you can swiftly eliminate someone without them rallying up a defense. If this was PPSC, I'd understand a quick supply centre grab.
18 Oct 18 UTC The Greece/Serbia/Libya area where all super weak. I knew Spain and I would be able to fall back and hold our areas in Western Europe for sure. I hate turtle draws, but it was my only option with how everything pieced together.

Regardless, Good Game everyone!
19 Oct 18 UTC Good game to all! I messed up my strategy in this one :(

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

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