Finished: 02 PM Sun 23 Sep 18 UTC
Private The great return
1 day /phase
Pot: 350 D - Autumn, 1910, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Kofi1066 (796 D)
04 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: Pardon the damn French comment, it just slipped out.
04 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: So here’s the thing. This has been a good game. However, France, Germany and Turkey benefited from an England that departed prematurely, allowing France and Germany to accelerate their acquisition of England’s SCs and accelerate their subsequent builds. Turkey benefited because France and Germany benefited. There is no doubt that the game is ’tainted’ by the premature departure of England.

From my conversations with France and Germany, I have deduced they are honorable players with respect for the game. (Sorry Turkey, I’m not saying you are not honorable as well, but I have not given you the chance to prove it.) Were I France and Germany, I would offer the opportunity to the other players for an immediate draw. And were France or Germany playing Italy, I know he would graciously accept the offer, for it would be rude for Italy deny France the opportunity to do the honorable thing.
04 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: When we knew England was going missing, I voted both draw and cancel, as I knew I would benefit the most and thought that was unfair. My offer is still on the table, and I'll back that up with votes on both.
However, CDs and NMRs are part of the game, and I had already outmaneuvered England before he NMRd. The NMR did Germany and I gain basically one phase, which can still be a huge advantage, but did not wildly swing the game. If Germany and Turkey want to keep playing after putting in a lot of work to get where they are, I understand that viewpoint too.
04 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: This is high level diplomacy. I don't agree, however. Any advantage wrought from England's departure was ever so marginal. I would argue the advantage France and Germany has had has been in their solid alliance (no small thing) and also my early stab on Russia, which went unexpectedly well, and benefited from at least one lucky move.

Because of this I think there is no honour lost to either France or Germany if they decide to continue the game. Not that I care about honour, though.
04 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: *My post above was in response to Italys
04 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: I was outwitted and outmaneuvered by Germany, and while I will be happy to be part of a draw, I don't think I have a real chance to get there. I did (still doing! why do you think all my efforts behind the German lines are?) all I could to give France the opportunity to stab Germany, but it seems like their alliance is very strong.

Plan B is to establish a stalemate line, because I have no doubt that Turkey will not be part of the German/French draw, but all my efforts to reason with Turkey about it did not work, so...

Kudos for the alliance, G/F. Yes, you benefited from England's NMR, but this is part of the game. I guess this is the dice of Diplomacy. Had we have England, I believe we could talk about 5 way draw, but at this stage - a 4 way draw would be the right thing to do, Italy played a wonderful game.
05 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1905: I'll draw, too.
10 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: Just to say, although it is probably obvious, I would like to draw after Russia has drunk his last vodka and finally expired. And, if possible, I'd even like to wait until there is just 3 of us left. I don't mind whether that is Italy or Turkey - I'm neutral in this - as both seem to be excellent fellows (or women, I don't know).
10 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: Russky will play until the last soldier!

The problem is that Germany will not. He is at 12 SCs and Italy/Turkey can't stop him. If it was only about finishing Russia, he could let Italy and Turkey to do it, without German troops in Budapest.

Germany is here for the solo.
10 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: P.S. The stab against France is coming. Burgundy is completely open.
10 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: If France attacks me I’ll draw. What I said above is what I want to do.
10 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: Alright, I'm gonna make this easy for everyone. I'm unvoting draw until Russia is dead. I'm pulling back on defense this phase. If Germany attacks me, I will fight back. If Italy and Turkey refuse to kill Russia, then Germany and I will attack you until either you or Russia is dead. If Russia is dead I will vote draw and attack anyone not voting draw.
10 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: Sorry Russia :(
10 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: No problem, enjoy England's early departure.
11 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: I'm curious. Why does Russia have to be off the board? What is the gain for France and Germany? I joined this game because some former player stated he hadn't played in a while and wanted a good game. I didn't join this game in the expectation that I might garner a few more webdip points. At least Russia didn't quit, and thus violate the integrity of the game. And as stated earlier, only France and Germany benefited from England quitting, and only France and Germany are beating their chest with high and mighty edicts about how certain players have to be eliminated before they will vote for a draw.
11 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: So how's this, I will collapse in, allowing Germany to take enough centers to win his precious points or solo. I'm not going to move against France, but I will defend against France first and Germany second. I cant fault Turkey for much, he has played a decent game under the circumstance and and is not calling for points. But Germany should be able to take enough Balkan centers plus SEV to take the win.

If it's that important to you, you can make your own deals and divvy up the board.
11 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: And Germany, it's not high level diplomacy if you benefited from a player quitting. In my opinion, that's no better than a cheater who plays two countries in the same game and the stops playing one of the countries so he can take them over easily. It's a Diplomacy high horse upon which you are mounted.
11 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: This whole game you have been going on and on about honor and that the balance was lost because a player left. How does you throwing the game to a German solo balance the game or show honor?
11 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1907: I didn't say I was throwing the game to Germany, I said I would defend against France first and Germany second. France captured one of my home centers. France is in a position to capture my home centers. Germany is in a position to capture the Balkans. I point out the obvious.
12 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1908: 1908 it is.
13 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1908: Taking our time :)
13 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1908: It's practically a medical miracle.
13 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1908: Thank you for the game (I am disbanding and not retreating to Albania).

Please include Italy in the draw. He well deserves it.

GG.
13 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: See ya Russia, good game.

Quoting Clint Eastwood (as William Money)..... "Deserves got nothing to do with it."
13 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: He was our town's Mayor and I went to school with 2 of his kids.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: There's my draw vote Italy. I hope you're happy that Germany is going to solo after you left Venice and Trieste open for him.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: I hope you and Turkey are happy after leaving me with no units with which to defend. You didn't have to take Tunis and Turkey did not have to take Greece and Smyrna. You made choices, I made choices. Part of the game.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: France, not only did you leave me with no units with which to provide a defense, neither of you approached me for a unified defense. And Turkey obviously got played by Germany. I told you exactly what was going to happen in Spring 07. You ignored me. Accept responsibility for your actions.

And you weren't complaining when England let you take two unprotected centers.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: And why do you have four fleets in the Med, there are NO German fleets in the Med.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: Face it, LOL, you too got played by Germany.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: ITY, as you say, we both made choices. If there is a 4 way draw, as it has been conveyed to me then, whether you have 4 centers or 2 is of no consequence you'll receive the same point distribution. If however, there isn't the draw that was proposed then, instead of getting the 1 build I currently have this turn, I'd be destroying one unit. There is a big difference in those 2 scenarios.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: Are you STILL caught up on that. Go back and look at it and tell me I wasn't already going to swallow England.

I offered you a four way draw, and you spurned me. After that I stopped trying to work with you.

Yes, I played this wrong against Germany. I miscalculated a lot of things this game, and most of that was because I could never figure out how you work, Italy. It's a flaw I have where I assume people are going to play more or less how I play.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: Of course you were going to take England, I'm just pointing out that the reality is that England capitulated, you had no opposition there, yet you complain that I 'allowed' Germany to take Venice and Trieste. I didn't allow anything, I lost three SCs to you and Turkey in one turn. Really, what was your expectation after you and Turkey did that?
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: That you would keep your units in your SCs.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: Turkey, sorry, but not getting your point.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: That I would keep my units in my SCs? Which SCs? You expected me to leave my home SCs exposed to the two players who had just taken three SC's? Really? You expected that?
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: He's telling you to hit the draw button and pray that we can stop a German solo.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: Is that what you would have done?

"Oh, good show chaps! I'm just going to continue to fight Germany at the front, the Germany you are allied with, and leave my ass hanging out. Take what you want chaps!"
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: I expected you to disband your units that were not in Venice, Trieste, Rome, and Naples. Then focus on protecting them. Instead you kept three fleets to obstruct me and didn't even contest the two SCs that were most open to the potential soloer.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: I would have kept Venice and disbanded Rome or Adriatic. You could have had three SCs right now.
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: And so I reiterate:

"Oh, good show chaps! I'm just going to continue to fight Germany at the front, the Germany you are allied with, and leave my ass hanging out. Take what you want chaps!"
14 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: My perspective at the time... France Germany, Turkey, three way draw. The actions (taking Tunis, Greece, Smyrna) reinforced my perception.
15 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: I am extremely happy to see Germany solo. All my efforts in Baltic sea and Germany were meant to stop it, if only France joined in. I openly stated it for several years.

Germany, you are a wonderful player. Go for the solo.
15 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1908: I can't defend either Sev or Serb this turn, and as a result Bul will be lost in the fall. Well done.
17 Sep 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: Germany didn't win?!?! Wow. Looks like 1910 is the dark year.
20 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1910: Last chance, Germany. If you don't draw now we are going to take you out!
20 Sep 18 UTC Spring, 1910: Yeah! I made it into Ruhr, so you are so dead.
20 Sep 18 UTC :))
21 Sep 18 UTC Thanks everyone!
21 Sep 18 UTC As ITY pointed out to me, should have destroyed Blk Sea

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
Kofi1066 (796 D)
Won. Bet: 50 D, won: 350 D
18 supply-centers, 16 units
France
Squigs44 (273 D Mod)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
Turkey
Carpysmind (1423 D)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
4 supply-centers, 5 units
Italy
mdrltc (1818 D (G))
Survived. Bet: 50 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
England
FatherofFive (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Austria
Telamor (121 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Russia
Baskineli (100 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Civil Disorders
FatherofFive (100 D)England (Autumn, 1903) with 4 centres.
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