Finished: 09 AM Mon 10 May 10 UTC
Walls have ears, but move slowly
3 days /phase
Pot: 64 D - Autumn, 1909, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
27 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1904: Well, I cannot effectively attack England, but you, on the other hand, can do so --- and probably will do so, in case I'm defeated, since you surely won't gain all of my SCs on your own. So, If I were England, I'd be very wary of you.
28 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1904: If and when we stop you, there might come a day when England and I have more to gain by attacking each other -- but at the present time, I think it would be terribly couterproductive
28 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1904: I cannot attack him at all right now --- and considering he has only one army on mainland, I sure as hell won't focus on him, since he's no threat. If I were to gain War, Mos and some of your SCs, I'm already done, without ever needing to threaten England. He can go get Swe, Ber, Mun and perhaps one or two of your SCs, without any kind of worry.

Safety in the long term is probably better than being stabbed later on.
28 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1904: You are making my point for me. If we allow you to get to 18 centers while we squabble with each other, then our battle is over, you've won. Assuming we don't want the game to end with a solo victory for another player, then we need to maintain our alliance order to keep you from winninng.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "Safety in the long term" -- you envision a long term in which you get a solo victory while he picks up a few SCs to come in 2nd place. What sort of safety is that?

I suppose if one cares about points, given the way they are allocated on this site, one might prefer a second place with 13 or more centers to a 3-way draw -- but I think most people who have a chance to win would prefer to stay in the game and fight rather than allow another play to waltz to victory.
28 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1904: Sorry I have not responded I have been away. Austria you are playing a fine game but I will not be siding with you unless I get attacked by France.

France I am with you until the end
28 Mar 10 UTC Spring, 1905: Very well. Let the guns decide who shall win.
28 Mar 10 UTC Spring, 1905: Supporting you back into Nap, Italy.
29 Mar 10 UTC Spring, 1905: well thanks!!!
01 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: @ Italy: don't expect much help from Austria if it means passing up the chance to enrich himself.
@England: hey, want some help into Munich? I'll support you as a way to open up a path against Austria for you.
01 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: Fance: not this turn, most likely next year once I get some armies into the battle.
It would be better if I supported you to the SC since I am ahead of you right now.
01 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: OK, though in the long run, I might prefer to cede the center against Austria to you while I concentrate on the western flank. Still, I could certainly use the SC at least temporarily and if it does nothing more than slow down Austria's advance, that's enough
03 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: Italy, I hope my continued support hold for Venice shows that I've just done what had to be done, that is, make sure our naval power is able to stop France advancing further.
03 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: yeah your right. what do you need?
04 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: Everyone must do what he or she thinks best, and I can't fault Italy for staying allied with Austria -- but just as a point of logic, Austria's reasoning is ludicrous, if it's meant to suggest any concern at all about Italy's survival. You are a useful pawn in preventing me from stopping him on his growth to 18 SCs; He'll be more than happy to take Venice from you when he's in position to support it, as he just took Tunis from you.
04 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: I could've very well tried to take Venice this turn, but I didn't. Allowing you to get Tunis and therefore another fleet in the Mediterranean would've meant pretty much certain doom for me and Italy.

Italy: Disband your fleet. I'll tell you more as time progresses.
04 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: austria disband you amies in russia I will tell you more as time progresses.
04 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: Yeah ... too bad I can't disband anything.

While I accept the humor of your response, I would have to be seriously retarded to tell France my tactics for kicking his butt. If Italy distrusts me, he'll soon have Frenchmen eating quiche in the waterways of Venice. If he trusts me, he'll probably regain his entire country --- or, as you and France would like to see it, he'll have Austrians eating Schnitzel in Venice. Hmm, Schnitzel...
04 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: Oh, please, you aren't going to help Italy regain his country. Once you've built enough fleets in Trieste, you'll take Venice, if you aren't over 18 SC already. Maybe Italy has a chance of surving with 1 SC for a bit longer with your help, but I doubt it. Heck, I'd be willing to make a deal with Italy -- if we don't stop Austria, the game will end for all of us. We don't want him to be able to keep Trieste open for building fleets.
05 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: Well, the problem with both offers --- yours and mine --- is that Italy has no reason whatsoever to trust one of us. We both need his cooperation for a better chance at victory and may not even need him.
06 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1905: Well, I agree with you on that.
10 Apr 10 UTC Spring, 1906: That one was unexpected.
11 Apr 10 UTC Spring, 1906: Italy -- I did not expect to actually take Venice -- this game, with only open communication, gave me no indication of your plan. I'm definitely willing to support you in Trieste. I'd be willing to vacate Venice if there were some way to keep Austria from taking it back.
11 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: Russia, if you want, I shall support you into Ber and St.P.
11 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: France Keil will forever be attacking Munich until he gets it
12 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: Wait, who's Keil?
14 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: (A) england, sorry had I realized you were going to attempt to take Munich from Kiel, I would have supported you. It is now painfully obvious to me what you meant by your message on Sunday, which I totally misunderstood (I thought "Keil" was a person, and wondered if you and Austria know each other's real names) . Anyway, I'll support you in the Spring. I'd very much like to let you attack Austria in the north/east while I take him on in the south.
(B) I'm bummed that Italy left -- couldn't he have retreated to Serbia?
14 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: no worries we have him now
18 Apr 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Eng, supporting your move Ruhr->Munich (Hope you don't mind, I'd just like to give your army in Belgium somewhere to go other than Pic...)
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: France I think we need to decide what happens for the rest of this game. (assuming and hoping we do not turn on eachother.

1) we let austria get rid of italy and 3 way draw
2) we 4 way draw since italy has already fought the odds and stayed alive
or
3) we vow to never take eachothers SC so once you get a SC it is yours to the end and me mine. once it is just the two fo us we draw, most likely you will get to 18 first since austria has me sealled but he cannot protect himself from your fleets.

Let me know what you think
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I would definitely accept the 3-way draw and am willing to consider the 4 way draw. [to reward Italy for taking over when the country was in civil disobedience and looked doomed]. I do agree that the 2-way is tricky [though I think I'm more exposed to risk from you than you are form me as it would take my fleets quite a long time to get in position to stab you -- also, I'm not so sure that I could get to 18 before you -- you have a respectable headstart [at 12 after this fall, I am likely to still be at 9], and Austria will probably not be able to keep you sealed much longer] Anyway, I'm open to trying it, but my preference is probably for one of the draws.
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I would definitely accept the 3-way draw and am willing to consider the 4 way draw. [to reward Italy for taking over when the country was in civil disobedience and looked doomed]. I do agree that the 2-way is tricky [though I think I'm more exposed to risk from you than you are form me as it would take my fleets quite a long time to get in position to stab you -- also, I'm not so sure that I could get to 18 before you -- you have a respectable headstart [at 12 after this fall, I am likely to still be at 9], and Austria will probably not be able to keep you sealed much longer] Anyway, I'm open to trying it, but my preference is probably for one of the draws.
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: like I say 64 points in not much, which makes me want to make it a two way between us. But I would only want to do that if we do not stab eachother. so I would not take any SC you already own we just keep taking austrias. But I do think austria played a geat game and italy has been sneaky.

PS> I am moving to Clyde for protection.
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I have no interest in stabbing you, only a little fear of your armies marching near my borders. I'd rather focus on the Mediterranean. Also, if I understand the scoring system here correctly [I'm not sure, this is only my second game here and neither one has ended yet] -- since it's not winner take all, even if one of us wins a solo, the other collects the points for the SCs he has, right? is there a bonus for the solo, or is it just the points for 18 SCs? -- if I understand it properly, surviving a game with 12 or more SCs is better than what you get for the 3-way draw which divides the points evenly.
[I do think Austria has played well, though he did get a little present from the Turkish's player, who missed deadlines every other season for the first few years.]
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I have no interest in stabbing you, only a little fear of your armies marching near my borders. I'd rather focus on the Mediterranean. Also, if I understand the scoring system here correctly [I'm not sure, this is only my second game here and neither one has ended yet] -- since it's not winner take all, even if one of us wins a solo, the other collects the points for the SCs he has, right? is there a bonus for the solo, or is it just the points for 18 SCs? -- if I understand it properly, surviving a game with 12 or more SCs is better than what you get for the 3-way draw which divides the points evenly.
[I do think Austria has played well, though he did get a little present from the Turkish's player, who missed deadlines every other season for the first few years.]
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I have no interest in stabbing you, only a little fear of your armies marching near my borders. I'd rather focus on the Mediterranean. Also, if I understand the scoring system here correctly [I'm not sure, this is only my second game here and neither one has ended yet] -- since it's not winner take all, even if one of us wins a solo, the other collects the points for the SCs he has, right? is there a bonus for the solo, or is it just the points for 18 SCs? -- if I understand it properly, surviving a game with 12 or more SCs is better than what you get for the 3-way draw which divides the points evenly.
[I do think Austria has played well, though he did get a little present from the Turkish's player, who missed deadlines every other season for the first few years.]
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: (A) sorry for sending that 3-times, my browser was frozen. (B) yes, I am willing to explicitly agree to your "no taking SCs from each other, only from Austria" pact.
23 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: Yes your understanding of the scoring is right,
It is done then we will not take any SC from eachother and we will go until one has a win
26 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: Well, with a bit more luck like that, I might still win this. Alas, I think my fleet is lacking.
26 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I definitely think we've been too quick to count our chickens [and I misplayed Venice for sure.]
26 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: well I hope you know you can trust me,
I would say disband paris and move burg south. I will move bel to Ruhr
26 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I don't *know* that I trust you, though that isn't meant as a slur on you, you've done nothing inherently untrustworthy -- it's just the nature of the game. On the other hand, I think my best chance in this situation is probably to trust you and keep the pressure on Austria which should bear fruit fairly soon.
26 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I understand if you are "insecure" I would be also.
I will honor the agreement the we will not take eachothers SC.
27 Apr 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I'm still open for the draw, in case you distrust each other enough.
03 May 10 UTC Autumn, 1908: England, would you mind if I build a fleet in Brest? -- it would definitely head south, but Marseille is currently unavaiable.
03 May 10 UTC Autumn, 1908: I would humbly suggest you need an army more, you can move your aries in italy around and get that fleet into the game. But I am fine with your choice . I see no logic for you to come after me.
03 May 10 UTC Autumn, 1908: the problem with armies in Brest (or Paris for that matter), is clearing a path for them to enter the fray. I'd use convoys, but the fleets are mostly booked, too. I'm just sad Italy didn't stick around to retreat to Bulgaria and deny Austria the build.
03 May 10 UTC Autumn, 1908: which ever way you go I am fine with
03 May 10 UTC Spring, 1909: Ohh I did not notice you had 2 build then yes you shoudl build the fleet
06 May 10 UTC good game all.
07 May 10 UTC Good game.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

England
Danaman (1666 D)
Drawn. Bet: 8 D, won: 21 D
12 supply-centers, 12 units
Austria
nehcxon (371 D)
Drawn. Bet: 8 D, won: 21 D
12 supply-centers, 10 units
France
insecure (315 D)
Drawn. Bet: 8 D, won: 21 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
Russia
shadowsalley (190 D)
Defeated. Bet: 8 D
Turkey
Lucky charms (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 8 D
Italy
Defeated. Bet: 8 D
Germany
walrus_i_am (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 8 D
Civil Disorders
Lucky charms (100 D)Turkey (Spring, 1904) with 2 centres.
varmer (100 D)Italy (Spring, 1903) with 4 centres.
irememberwheniwasstraight (100 D)Italy (Autumn, 1907) with 1 centres.
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