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Finished: 06 AM Sat 30 Apr 16 UTC
SoS Public messaging only
1 day /phase
Pot: 175 D - Spring, 1908, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Sum-of-Squares Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
26 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Italy, do you want me to take Rome? In the next move you take it back.
26 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: I am here now
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Hey Turkey,
Yes please get Tyrr to support Naples to Rome
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Hi Turkey, ca, both Tyr and Boh support hold the unit in Munich ? Keeping it on this side of the alliance is the key to resist. Thanks.
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Germany. Can you support me into Livonia?
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Germany, i didnt hold cause it wouldn't have worked. As you see france attacked the army in tyrolia. :(
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: And italy if you want rome or ven say so. I will fall back from rome. Butni think it would be good for now to keep venice
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: But I*
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Bye bye Germany! Me taking Warsaw is payback for bouncing me out of the sweet sweet Scandinavian lands.
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Yes but what will cure the ennui of making the game boring as fuck of EF vs RT?
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: oh, and GG
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: GG Austria. I hate having to play Austria so I feel your pain.
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Turkey-I can support Galicia's move into Silesia next turn. This will create a clear draw or stalemate line.

If England and France are unwilling to turn on each other and Italy-Turkey-Russia do the same...this game is clearly heading for a draw.
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Ah well we will see. Yes support me :)
27 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Lol at Russia :)
Do you really hold grudges that hard?
Anyway it makes sense what Russia says. We have arrived at a stalemate line now. I won't stab France, it would make no sense for him to stab me. And I don't think Turkey and Italy will stab each other, so unless Turkey really wants to give back Rome I think we can safely draw this game.(after builds have started so the correct point distribution will be in play)

Btw France, if we don't draw this game, please discard MAO. I have the power to secure MAO, If you discard any other unit the stalemate line will be broken and you will loose a lot of SC.
28 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Well Munich is not entirely secure. Italy and Turkey can advance into Piedmont and then possible Mar (depending on what BUR does; hold Munich or Mar).

Its really up to Italy and Turkey if they want to continue. I think they can make gains but perhaps it goes nowhere. England and I are stuck up north.

I wouldn't call it a grudge..just vindication. Germany/England alliances rarely last and as Germany you always have England behind you just waiting.
28 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Actually Munich is secure. Berlin and Kiel defend Munich and thus it will be secure. Baltic sea will support Prussia so you can't get there to cut Berlin support. North is indeed seruce as well. And Bur can defend Marseilles. so it will be impossible to take Marseilles without loosing Spain.

Believe me, whatever you guys do, France and I won't loose a SC.
The question is wether Turkey still wants to give back Rome like he promises or wether he will stab Italy after all...

Oh and France, actually instead of disbanding MAO another option is to disband Piemont, which also isn't crucial. Either way we won't loose any SC anymore.
28 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Ha ha! Bye bye gents!
28 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Looks like we've pretty much achieved a stalemate - I am also in favor of a draw.
28 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: I don't have a disband ;-) England, I now will try to let you into MAO so you can come south to the West Med full power ok ?
28 Apr 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Ok I see what you try to do, France. That is indeed still a possibility. So it is not a stalemate yet I guess.
I'll move into MAO.
28 Apr 16 UTC France, Can you support my move from Berlin to Silesia?
28 Apr 16 UTC Turkey and Russia, do you guys want to draw or not?
As far as I understood it, all you guys allied together to stop me and France. We are proposing to draw, so that basicly means you have stopped us. So I don't see a reason not to draw this game, unless Turkey still has a hidden agenda?
28 Apr 16 UTC Italy, move to north africa and i'll go into the western med. Cause France is trying that so it will be a bounce. Maybe better for me to go to tunis and in the next turn support me into North africa? You won't lose Tunis and you get rome cause I'll move the fleet there. And attack Pie, maybe i'll support you maybe not, let them think about it.
Russia, support me into Silesia?
28 Apr 16 UTC A draw is ok with me.
28 Apr 16 UTC Turkey, could Tyrr move to Tunis then North Africa, and Rome to Tyrrhenian? Could Venice support Tuscany to Piedmont? But yes, this is most definitely a stalemate - please vote for a draw.
28 Apr 16 UTC Sure Turkey-I'll support you to Silesia. The only reason I pulled my draw vote was to ensure one more turn passes and Austria is defeated.
28 Apr 16 UTC Rude. <3
28 Apr 16 UTC Yes i can Italy, but for the support to Pie i'm not sure yet.
28 Apr 16 UTC haha that's legit :D
28 Apr 16 UTC The good thing about public messaging is that you can see who's an asshole and who's not. For example England could have talked Italy into thinking I will stab him and this alliance couldn't have maybe existed(just to be clear i'm not saying England is a asshole :D just manipulative) The definition of asshole i mentioned up there is a guy who turns two players against each other but from the perspective of the one that was accused of a backstab plan and got attacked from his ally. You could also say that that guy isn't a asshole yet a good player haha
28 Apr 16 UTC Turkey I think indeed that you are describing a good player rather than an asshole. A good player in this game has to be a little manipulative.
I don't see the problem in that. I know you didn't really like me much and that's ok.
If you had stabbed Italy we could have had a 3 way draw instead of 5-way, either way is good for me.
But I must say allowing only public messaging gives a completely different game. Less backstabs because everyone is worried about his reputation, because it is very visible what is happening.
28 Apr 16 UTC But Turkey if you would have stabbed Italy, which I would have expected actually, then you would be able to force both me and France into a draw which would be hugely in your favor.
I'm surprised Italy trusted you so much and you didn't stab at any time in the game. There were times you could have taken all of Italy's SC in one turn, nothing anyone could have done about it.
28 Apr 16 UTC five way draw. thrilling.
28 Apr 16 UTC Incredible isn't it ;)
Luckely you and Germany are out otherwise it would have been 7 way, lol.
28 Apr 16 UTC Yes yes a good player but i underline the part: from the perspective of the one that was accused of a backstab plan and got attacked from his ally(the ally guy got manipulated by the good player)
That guy certainly things the good player is a asshole haha
28 Apr 16 UTC the guy who got backsabed certainly thinks*..
28 Apr 16 UTC Yes from the perspective of the one getting attacked it might indeed look like that.
But actually seeing that Germany has a decent amount of experience, I'm actually surprised that he thought our 3-way alliance could last and that I would choose his side in an eventual splitup. Certainly after taking Sweden and blocking my access to GoB and Baltic Sea, making me (on purpose) completely reliant on his good will to be able to grow at all.
28 Apr 16 UTC Good game all! Yes I was surprised when Germany sided with you England. A good lesson for Germany would be to make sure you stab in the spring and do it convincingly. Stick the knife all the way in! Much like you did England. Germany's half way in and out of Belgium did him no favors.

Turkey-Thanks for the alliance. I'm surprised you didn't take me or Italy out. I guess you can be more ruthless non public chat games.
28 Apr 16 UTC Well actually, in my career in diplomacy i haven't stabbed anyone, so i guess i wouldn't have stabbed here if it was non public, but it would be hard for the others to see that. Also this would have been the best chance in all the games to stab someone. I could have taken nearly all of Italy's sc's. I could have stabbed you too haha but Italy would have been a masterpiece :D The most best stab i have seen haha
28 Apr 16 UTC Oh and looks like the juggernaut actually survived :DD I thought we were dead.
28 Apr 16 UTC I sound so naive trusting Turkey so totally, but for me not trusting Turkey was not an option. After the 'Great Stab of 1904', it was clear that Ebgland/France were headed towards a victory unless turkey and me completely trusted each other. I figured an 80% chance of getting stabbed by Turkey and a 20% chance of victory or a draw was better than the 100% chance of defeat if France/England took the Western Mediterranean area off me while I guarded my SC's from Turkey.
28 Apr 16 UTC Anyway, thanks for the game. It turned out slightly better than I was expecting - getting caught between a western triple and an eastern juggernaut in the first year was not a pleasant experience, as I'm sure Austria can attest to haha
28 Apr 16 UTC Ah even if we defeated france and england i think i wouldn't have stabbed you :)
28 Apr 16 UTC Well I was surprised as well that Germany wanted a western triple. I was happy because I needed support against a possible juggernaut. I was extremely happy(and it felt really good) that I was able to talk Germany ou of a stab on France and at the same time was able to stab Germany myself. It might be a lesson for Germany, if you decide to stab someone, then do it entirely, don't back down half way because you don't get any benefit but still loose your credibility.

I'm as surprised that Turkey didn't stab anyone, It probably is his playing style, but I think it is a suboptimal game. Anyway pointswise, I think it was good for me not to have someone with a lot more points then me :)

To be honest, both Turkey and Italy could have been part of a 3 way split. The first to stab the other in a good way(in this case Turkey was in the best position) could have discussed for a 3 wa
28 Apr 16 UTC *way alliance with me and France.
I would have been perfectly ok with having such an alliance. So Italy if you would have stood up against Turkey or if Turkey would have stabbed Italy this game would have been very different an a 3 way alliance would have been the case I think.
If Italy would have been able to semi destroy France then a Turkey/Italy/England alliance would have been an option as well, but that should have happened before I was able to secure my mainlands then.

But anyway, well played Italy, getting crushed between a juggernaut and a western triple is not easy. Surviving with Italy always feels like a victory.
29 Apr 16 UTC Even if i wanted to stab I wouldn't trust you that after the stab a 3 way split would come.
29 Apr 16 UTC I can understand that you don't trust me. It's diplomacy after all. But if you stab Italy you have 13 or 14 SC, so you can force a split to happen. If not you even have an attempt at a solo.
29 Apr 16 UTC England, please stop with giving lessons to me.
29 Apr 16 UTC See you in another game gents.

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