Finished: 07 AM Mon 04 Jan 16 UTC
Private The End of Times
3 days /phase
Pot: 140 D - Spring, 1912, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
15 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: I agree. If players can they move quicker than 3 days. But the option of three should be there in case there is a season with extra negotiation time required.
15 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: We shall be starting a new game in the new year. The general consensus is that 3 days allows for enough time, given the busy lives we lead and the time zones involved. If we have engaged players, moves will occur faster than that.

This game isn't over though yet and I'd urge everyone to post their orders as quickly as possible for the sake of all others involved.
15 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: Dude.... I don't think we can carry on. Germany was in hospital!!!!! And how is that fair on England?
15 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: Wanna be left by the wayside? Be my guest ;-)
15 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: Wow.....
15 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: build your unit and carry on like a man. no battle fever now!
20 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1905: Who's is touch with Germany? All moves are made.
20 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1905: Who's is touch with Germany? All moves are made.
20 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1905: I have a theory that Italy is now in control of Germany's armies ; )
21 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1906: i believe it's the ancient marsians in charge of germany's fleet.
21 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1906: Unbelievably scandalous rumour stirring by the French. You shall be crushed without my undue influence over Germany.
22 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1906: I wish we could have a messenger service when players make their moves so we don't have to continuously log in to see what has happened. Maybe backstabbr has that.
22 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1906: Uri, I love your passion for the game. Still coming back to see. You're still welcome in Livonia you know.
22 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1906: I recommend http://www.playdiplomacy.com for the next game simply cause you can get an email notification whenever moves are processed or messeges received.
23 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: Joho - I'm just waiting for 1933. :)
23 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: hope this one won't take that long! ;)
24 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: All. I think that this game is basically over. Happy to concede.
24 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: worth finishing it off no?
24 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: worth finishing it off no?
25 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: It would be good gamemanship if it were played to its conclusion without too much delay.
26 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: Guys sorry. I thought I had made my move.
26 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: You still haven't ;)
26 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: It's crazy that Germany still has to make the disband order. There is no alternative. And now we'll sit around again for two days.
26 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: That is a stupid quirk in the programming, it's a superfluous move.
26 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: So somebody get in touch with Nic;) otherwise we wait three days.
26 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: I tried, but for some reason my text message isn't getting through.
26 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1907: All done.
26 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1907: Got your email Italy.
26 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1907: Let's get the show on the road!
26 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1907: Wouldn't it be amazing to have a move happen within an evening?
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: Guys - a draw is a perfectly respectable outcome.

But are we clear its not the actual objective of the game?
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: I believe ending in a draw with two or three allies is as much of a victory as winning the game in first place. There is a lot of literature on this here:

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy.htm

specifically one on alternate objectives to single victory.

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/calhamer/objectives.htm

In my humble opinion, once the axis is erased, if there is one, two or three allies left is quite irrelevant. The stage of diplomacy is over and it is pure tactical warfare to try to gain the 18 supply centers. At the end of the day, the game is called diplomacy.
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: No!!!!!! Means must serve ends not the other way round. EG suppose Italy were to devote all of its resources to fighting France leaving it exposed to the East and suppose Russia could comfortably win from here but it chooses not too. There is no diplomacy in the world that France can engage in because Russia's objective is not to gain 18 supply points, it is to maintain its alliance with Italy.

The objective has become to maintain the alliance - where as the alliance should serve some objective, which in this case is to win18 supply centres.

If everyone played this way the deciding factors in any victory would be which country you were assigned and, what you describe as, tactical warfare.
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: Secondary objectives are inevitable, indeed, essential to the continuity of the game. Often, the objective for a country that finds itself unable to win simply becomes outliving a rival. There's nothing wrong with that - it provides incentive to carry on playing.

It is only fair that that a dominant player decides the ultimate outcome of the game as he/she sees fit. After all, history is written by the victor(s), not the losers.
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: Anybody in touch with England?
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: Agree with the first point. I aim to become your Vietnam.

But I am not sure the analogy works on the second.
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: I'm here.
27 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1908: and so is austria ;) a for effort!
27 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1908: I just sadistically enjoy watching my ancient prophecy come to life about how England, Turkey, and Germany are silly fools and will be destroyed for not helping me foil the Russo-Italian alliance which was obvious from day 1 -- when they still had the chance... muha hahah haha hahaha sob
27 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1908: :)
27 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1908: England don't belong with the fools. We executed some bad moves at key points but France proved unable to overcome his natural desire to attack eng despite the events unfolding around him, while Italy for some reason has taken upon himself to form an alliance with Russia and just watch as russia makes his way to 18 SC. You definitely are the winner if you get a solo win and right now Italy is looking the biggest FOOL.
27 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1908: all I'm saying is that we had a chance to attack St. Petersburg and you chickened out. It's poetic justice that the French rooster will be pissing all over the union jack before being served as a side dish with potatoes, vodka, and some pizza.
27 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1908: To our English detractors: "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."
27 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1908: France couldn't quite overcome its fears of being attacked by England so went first. Actually I felt that the game should have been drawn when Germany was in hospital. That was the turning point. It was a bit unfair to Germany (although he was disengaged at that point) but it was super unfair to England.

As I have written - I think going for a draw from the beginning is not super cool - but let's see what actually happens.
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Hear hear, the Austrian oracle speaks wise words ;-)
27 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: As for France. You have written your own history, stop whingeing!
28 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Whingeing? Has power gone to Italy's head?
28 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Why is Italy giving the game to Russia ?
30 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: It's all down to you now
30 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: And the final move

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Russia
jpuhrer (369 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 70 D
17 supply-centers, 17 units
Italy
rolandgp (105 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 70 D
17 supply-centers, 16 units
France
Mr M Shaw (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
Germany
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
England
Bilbobilbo (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
Turkey
Drunkenprawn (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
Austria
Uri (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
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